4 ms·

Well, you said that "normal people" would read a book "long before" going to school, which I think is not true in many domains. My second point was not just th

by neilc 18y ago

Well, you said that "normal people" would read a book "long before" going to school, which I think is not true in many domains. My second point was not just that you can learn from your peers, but that there is a social environment at a school that is important, and not readily replicated in self-study. You don't learn much from your peers at a typical cooking class, but they still contribute to why many people choose to take classes rather than self-study.

gnaritas 18y ago
The stats on college attendance would seem to be against you since about 70% of the population doesn't do it or doesn't finish a 4 year degree. Those are normal people. The 30% that do attend college and finish with at least a Bachelor's are the minority. Yes, school is a social environment for learning, that has value, but it's hardly the only way to obtain that. Outside of school, there are local clubs and hobbie groups, forums and blogs such as this on the Internet, alternate paths such as the military, etc. There are all kinds of ways to be around people who enjoy the same things you do, or are trying to learn the same things you are without going to school. By saying thats a benefit of school you're implying that it's not obtainable elsewhere. School just isn't that important if you really want to learn, it's more valuable for those that lack motivation and need someone to make them learn.
- abstractbill 18y ago
  The stats on college attendance would seem to be against you since about 70% of the population doesn't do it... In what country? Citation? Here's some numbers from the UK: http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/faqs/showFaq.asp?l1=2&ID=7 http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/faqs/showFaq.asp?l1=2&ID... According to that, 43% of 17-30 year olds enter higher education in the UK.
  - gnaritas 18y ago
    My apologies for the U.S. cultural assumption. See http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf for what it's like here. I also presumed we're discussing those who finish college, not those who just enter it. What percentage actually finish college in the UK?
    - DougBTX 18y ago
      The OECD stats look quite interesting. They break things down into Type A[1] and Type B[2] programs. Superficially, Type A are 3+ year courses, Type B are 2+ year courses. Results for the UK and US are here[3][xls]. Executive summary: for the 3-4 year Type A graduates, in the UK, 97% graduate. The OECD average is 67%. This report also has data for the US. For actual numbers of people in the UK with degrees, there's this page[4] from the National Statistics. For people of Working Age, 18 to 60-ish, in the UK, 16% have degrees, and another 8.5% have "Higher education qualifications". 15% have no qualifications. It would be handy to have data for the 25-35 age range, since not many 18 year olds have degrees. [1] Type A: http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=5440 http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=5440 [2] Type B: http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=544 http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=544 [3] World Stats: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/17/15/39245059.xls http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/17/15/39245059.xls [4] UK Degree Stats: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/Product.asp?vlnk=10446 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/Product.asp?vlnk=10446

by neilc 18y ago

gnaritas 18y ago

The stats on college attendance would seem to be against you since about 70% of the population doesn't do it or doesn't finish a 4 year degree. Those are normal people. The 30% that do attend college and finish with at least a Bachelor's are the minority. Yes, school is a social environment for learning, that has value, but it's hardly the only way to obtain that. Outside of school, there are local clubs and hobbie groups, forums and blogs such as this on the Internet, alternate paths such as the military, etc. There are all kinds of ways to be around people who enjoy the same things you do, or are trying to learn the same things you are without going to school. By saying thats a benefit of school you're implying that it's not obtainable elsewhere. School just isn't that important if you really want to learn, it's more valuable for those that lack motivation and need someone to make them learn.

abstractbill 18y ago
The stats on college attendance would seem to be against you since about 70% of the population doesn't do it... In what country? Citation? Here's some numbers from the UK: http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/faqs/showFaq.asp?l1=2&ID=7 http://www.universitiesuk.ac.uk/faqs/showFaq.asp?l1=2&ID... According to that, 43% of 17-30 year olds enter higher education in the UK.
- gnaritas 18y ago
  My apologies for the U.S. cultural assumption. See http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf for what it's like here. I also presumed we're discussing those who finish college, not those who just enter it. What percentage actually finish college in the UK?
  - DougBTX 18y ago
    The OECD stats look quite interesting. They break things down into Type A[1] and Type B[2] programs. Superficially, Type A are 3+ year courses, Type B are 2+ year courses. Results for the UK and US are here[3][xls]. Executive summary: for the 3-4 year Type A graduates, in the UK, 97% graduate. The OECD average is 67%. This report also has data for the US. For actual numbers of people in the UK with degrees, there's this page[4] from the National Statistics. For people of Working Age, 18 to 60-ish, in the UK, 16% have degrees, and another 8.5% have "Higher education qualifications". 15% have no qualifications. It would be handy to have data for the 25-35 age range, since not many 18 year olds have degrees. [1] Type A: http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=5440 http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=5440 [2] Type B: http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=544 http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=544 [3] World Stats: http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/17/15/39245059.xls http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/17/15/39245059.xls [4] UK Degree Stats: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/Product.asp?vlnk=10446 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/Product.asp?vlnk=10446