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My reaction to this article has been... complex. ----- Bah! Another article about ADHD. ADHD's over diagnosed and not not as big a problem as people make it o

My reaction to this article has been... complex. ----- Bah! Another article about ADHD. ADHD's over diagnosed and not not as big a problem as people make it out to be. But, I'm curious all of a sudden, so I might as well read it. > For the first 19 years of my life I knew I was lazy. Yeah, I'm pretty lazy too. That's just who I am, though. I don't have ADHD... > So what, you can't stop bouncing your leg at the restaurant? I thought I was the only one that did that. It drives my aunt crazy. > I'll be halfway through a team meeting and realize I haven't heard anything that was said. That's ADHD. THAT'S ADHD? I do that all the time. I can't listen to podcasts either. But I just have difficulty processing the spoken word. I'm much more of a book learner anyway. > I was happiest with my nose in the book I'm seeing a disturbing pattern take shape. > I'll take a break to read an article and hours will go by before I realize what's happened. Not minutes, hours. That's ADHD. Wat. > I'm horrible at completing simple, repetitive tasks. I'm terrible at time management, and conceptualizing time in general. Uh oh. Other comments here have mentioned that stimulants help ADHD sufferers focus. I recently cut back to 2 20oz cans of red bull a day, but I was up to 4 a few years ago. I just thought caffeine was my drug of choice. Everyone's addicted to something, right? I currently have 52 open tabs on my laptop and another 37 open on my desktop. I'm not quite sure what to do with all of this. I just thought I was lazy.

internet_user 7y ago
Perhaps ADHD is a frequent misdiagnosis. They are not uncommon in medicine, which is really guesswork in white coats. However, actual ADHD, and other similar attentional or executive function impairments are very likely to be under diagnosed BIG TIME.
- zilian 7y ago
  Perhaps for some people ADHD is transitional, chronic - related to serious anxiety / pressure. I don't think everything is always 0 or 1
tudelo 7y ago
Honestly I had/have many similar symptoms (of course there is more than can be written in a short comment) and was diagnosed and started medication over a year ago. It has been very positive for me. YMMV.
ddxxdd 7y ago
An ADHD diagnosis is based roughly on a 5-percentile standard[0]. In other words, if you are a hardworking, industrious person, but the rest of society is harder-working and more industrious, then you automatically become ADHD-diagnosed by virtue of being on the left side of the bell curve. It's also worth noting that in France, ADHD is seen as a problem with a child's environment instead of a medical issue[1]. [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo... [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/201203/why-french-kids-dont-have-adhd https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/...
- internet_user 7y ago
  Almost all "normal" levels on your bloodwork and all other tests are essentially 2 standard deviation cut offs. Context and history is just as important.
- travisp 7y ago
  France also generally views autism this way and fails to diagnose and properly treat autistic children. It’s a huge problem and probably ruins many families and children’s lives. I would not be surprised if in a couple decades we are talking about the “shame” of France’s approach to ADHD as well. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17583123 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17583123 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/france-is-50-years-behind-the-state-scandal-of-french-autism-treatment https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/france-is-50-y... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(14)70290-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0...
DoreenMichele 7y ago
A lot of Twice Exceptional* people get labeled lazy. It may not be ADHD. It may be some other hidden issue. In the vast majority of cases, people who get identified as an adult seem to be tremendously relieved and empowered by having a better label than lazy. * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional
- internet_user 7y ago
  Twice exceptional people with a solid track record of underachieving? How is that in any way exceptional? * Executive function is affected by all those disorders you mention in the wiki. And the best proxy we know of and can measure is attention.
  - xkcd-sucks 7y ago
    One of the two "exceptions" is mental illness so
  - andrewflnr 7y ago
    There are other axes by which to assess humans than "acheivement". There are even other axes for value! Someone can be "exceptional" along any of them.
    - internet_user 7y ago
      Goal oriented self-directed behavior is what distinguishes us from apes. Underachieving is just inability to deploy your efforts effectively, or even inability to muster an effort in the worst cases. That translates to every domain and aspect of human life from scholastic to social to friendships etc etc etc. Value is not entirely subjective.
      - zingermc 7y ago
        Life isn't deterministic.
firecall 7y ago
I have ADHD. There are other serious neurological issues connected to ADHD. It's a very misunderstood disorder with a broad spectrum of identifiable symptoms that could indicate ADHD. If you are heavily medicating with caffeine, then that can be a signal. I was using Pseudoephedrine and caffeine to self medicate and stabilise my moods and behaviours. That was before I got prescribed Ritalin. But as the article says, I find Ritalin dulls my creative thinking and pattern matching that is required for insightful realisations. Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria is big problem for me. I over think things, the slightest misread comment can ruin my day. I also have a problem with cyclical depression and euphoric highs that are a bit like bi-polar but not as severe. So yeah - It's hell. I hate having ADHD. I never looked for a diagnosis, but when I got one it was a light-bulb moment. Life still sucks. It's not a super-power and I'm not blessed.
- nerdbaggy 7y ago
  RSD is a nightmare for me. Something I always have to work on
  - icxa 7y ago
    My "coping" mechanism, annoying for some, I am sure, but I just bluntly immediately ask for feedback and try to get to the bottom of it as soon as possible. I am fortunate enough to have a manager that understands my condition and he offers me plenty of "spot" feedback which I cannot appreciate more.
    - firecall 7y ago
      I totally relate to that! I do it as well - I often cant leave something alone. It drives my wife insane as I'll just keep on about it when she wants to move on and let it go. I do it at work sometimes too, and it can come across as a bit intimidating, especially with people who dont like up front confrontation.
      - icxa 7y ago
        Have you found any support groups or any that were affective? I have taken a cursory glance at some support groups available to me in the past, plus some internet circles, but found them not personal enough to be effective or I felt too detached from the people involved from their day to day problems. But I feel like I, as well as other ADHD folk would benefit from some sort of HN "accountability" partner or group that understands the condition but also the type of work we do.
xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
FWIW, I was the same, until I ran into some issues at work. Talking to a medical professional was eye opening. It's worth having he conversation, at the very least. I was very skeptical after being diagnosed. Then I forgot to renew my prescription the other week and it was utter chaos. I can't believe how much focus and discipline I used to lack.
- vikiomega9 7y ago
  How did the professional help?
  - falcolas 7y ago
    Meds aside (which do help, and not all will trigger personality or physical changes), there are some coping mechanisms which you can pick up. Even with meds, you’re really only given a bit more control over your attention, so having coping mechanisms are still useful.
  - xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
    I was referred to a psychiatrist who had me fill out a questionnaire, and we spent about an hour iterating through my life beginning from childhood. The questions they asked, individually, felt meaningless, but trends emerged fast. I get that these questions can be gamed if you're just seeking a prescription, but in my case I'm generally quite hesitant to take these sorts of drugs. I have close friends who had many very messed up years due to struggles with ADHD medication. Now I feel like I'm living life with my eyes open. Far from perfect, but I am able to have ownership of my issues.
blotter_paper 7y ago
Yeah. I don't want to be somebody who jumps on the bandwagon and self-diagnoses themselves with ADHD, but I also fall into all of these categories, have developed a bunch of his coping mechanisms on my own (the lists part really hit home, I cannot get shit done without making multiple lists and sub-lists throughout the day so that I have an anchor to fall back on when I'm getting distracted), and consume gratuitous amounts of caffeine to keep focused. I've gone through a gallon and a half of Monster in a single day on many occasions, though my normal daily consumption peaked at about 3/4 of a gallon. I've had other people suggest that I might have ADHD as well, but I have no desire to get a diagnosis even if the doc would agree. I'm doing alright with myself and making improvements over time. I do appreciate articles like this because whether or not I have "ADHD" I do have a bunch of overlapping symptoms/patterns-of-behavior, and reading about how other people cope with similar experiences seems useful.
- stefanfisk 7y ago
  As someone who was diagnosed just about a month ago after a lifetime of coping I’m curious, what’s the argument against diagnosis?
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    I'm certainly not arguing that anybody else should avoid diagnosis. I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but I tend to stay away from medical practitioners in general. The last time I broke a bone I did some googling and treated it at home; I generally feel like the time and money needed to access professional medical advice isn't worth the knowledge which is already available at my fingertips faster and cheaper. If I were to get diagnosed at some point, it would be because society won't let me buy kiddie-meth (Ritalin/Vivance) over the counter. I've tried kiddie-meth four times illicitly, and it did wonders for me, but I'm not yet ready to incorporate it into my regular drug stack. I worry about potential effects from prolonged use (the "dulling" some people describe), and it makes me prone to giving <i>all</i> of my effort to the task at hand even when that isn't actually clever. I'm not ready to burn that filament yet. If I were throwing everything I had into a startup, I could totally see getting on the stuff. I'm about a decade from that point in life by my best approximations. As a side note, I accidentally smoked a little bit of actual-meth once (the guy who packed the bowl didn't tell me there was meth in it -- long story), and the effects were very similar. I didn't realise why I had been in such a great flow-state until it was revealed to me about a week later.
philliphaydon 7y ago
> > I was happiest with my nose in the book > I'm seeing a disturbing pattern take shape. I fall into alot of the list but I will say I do not suffer from ADHD. When I was at school I was told I had ADHD and put on Ritalin. But I couldn't tell the difference between taking ritalin and not taking it, I didn't focus any better, didn't get in trouble any less. I always figured I wasn't challenged enough in school, or wasn't doing something I enjoyed. If I was doing technical drawing I always got top of the class and helped the other kids with their work. In History class we learned about NZ history which is like 150 years of nothing, so I couldn't focus, yet you give me a book about Egypt and I'm fascinated and sit for hours reading. Fast forward many years and I watched: https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_cre... ADHD is a real thing, but I recon majority of people 'diagnosed' with ADHD, don't actually suffer from it. And I don't believe the Author suffers from it.
- stefanfisk 7y ago
  My partner went to a Waldorf school grade 1 through 12, and whenever we discuss what school was like it blows my mind that she has no idea about just how horribly "regular" schools are at fostering creativity and interest. She has been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult because she has a REALLY hard time with handling everyday life, but for her school was never a problem because of the "fluid" philosophy of Waldorf. While I like Sir Robinson's talk, for me The Seven-Lesson Schoolteacher is what really struck a cord: http://www.swaraj.org/multiversity/gatto_7lesson.htm http://www.swaraj.org/multiversity/gatto_7lesson.htm. I always felt like the school system (in Sweden at least) mainly wanted to students to fit into it, rather than the other way around. So as someone who is gifted according to WISC and WAIS, but who lacks the executive functioning and skill to do anything except whatever happens to be the most interesting at the moment, it was just hell. Even now at age 36 my body goes stiff whenever someone mentions homework O_O
- justin66 7y ago
  > And I don't believe the Author suffers from it. The author was diagnosed after multiple sessions with a medical professional.
puskavi 7y ago
...yeah, that happened. I were in ADHD tests but I was told I may just have "small_brain_clipboard", never heard anything back.. ...........
manyxcxi 7y ago
I was officially diagnosed at age 32. This wasn’t some pill mill diagnosis either. I worked with my psych for 3 months before we tried any meds, it would’ve been longer but I had accidentally discovered most of the practical methods for dealing with it on my own. Two great reliefs came from the diagnosis: 1. I’m not a lazy, unmotivated person 2. Meds, at the right dose, are amazing. When my Vyvanse kicks in, it’s like walking away from an outdoor block party in my brain and getting into a sound proof booth where I can hear only the noise I want (or have) to. Things I lived with my whole life that were both positive and negative depending on the circumstances: - I can’t even stand the thought of a task, class, or activity I’m not interested in, but if I’m even slightly interested I can go deep fast and keep going with no loss of zeal until I’m satisfied. Basically, I can get super obsessed with stuff for short or long periods of time. My hobby background is ridiculously all over the place. - I think and iterate my thoughts faster than most people can keep up, and I iterate my thoughts externally, if I’m on a roll good luck getting a word in between breaths. My psych “classified” me as a second order thinker and I run lots of what-if permutations and shave and shape creative solutions very fast. It also means I must be extremely cognizant of letting other be heard, especially those that like to ruminate on an idea and bring it to light more fully formed. - My leg never stopped bouncing, helpful when I played music to keep time, annoying to anyone near me. - I’m quick to temper and just as fast back to moving on. - Little to no patience for bullshit or things I just am not interested in. Don’t tell me a detailed story of how to get there, just give me the highlights. I do t care about how you feel about some objective thing, just give me the facts and let’s keep moving. Lots of other stuff, but basically I coped, unknowingly by creating rituals that allowed me to not forget or have to waste time finding things: - Get home, keys and wallet go in the exact same place every time - Todo list for next week created at the end of every Friday, revised at the end of every week day, and reviewed every morning - The thing I want to do least is the thing I force myself to do first, and nothing else until it’s done - Organize my schedule in a calendar, if it’s not in there it doesn’t exist and I won’t remember - Just remembered to put that thing in the car for tomorrow and I’m laying in bed? Get up RIGHT NOW and go do it. - Can’t forget your coat if your car keys are always in them - My working area is spotless. No bobble heads on the desk or stacks of papers. Desk is completely clear, cables neatly organized, zip tied, and hidden. Here’s the thing, maybe you do have ADHD. Maybe you don’t. The rituals you focus on and make so habitual you don’t even have to think about them will still work for you.
taneq 7y ago
I just thought "tick!" an uncomfortable number of times in a row while reading that. Gonna go get a coffee.
fouc 7y ago
I think the best description of ADHD I heard was that it has more to do with an "attention-switching" deficit. People with ADHD are capable of intense focus on highly stimulating things like a good book. The intensity of focus drowns out everything else, making it hard to deal with other important tasks until the book is finished. It's also much more difficult to maintain their attention on things that are no longer stimulating. So ADHD folks are great at starting interesting projects, but once the space of possibilities has been narrowed down and all that's left is hammering it out, it becomes intensely difficult to maintain attention on that due to lack of stimulation.
- nsilvestri 7y ago
  The attention switching idea seems consistent with my own experiences. I dated a girl with pretty severe ADHD; whenever she watched Arrested Development (a very fast paced sitcom with a lot happening) she would turn into a zombie and be almost entirely oblivious to any outside stimuli.
  - thrav 7y ago
    I have ADHD and have literally trained myself to use Arrested Development to put myself to sleep. Always the same episode. Even with the most crowded mind, I lay down with one earbud in, and I can’t make it 3 minutes without passing out. The rapid dialogue means there’s no opportunity for intrusive thoughts to enter, but I know it all by heart, so there’s zero intrigue in any of it.
    - Mirioron 7y ago
      I have a similar situation, but it's a daydream. If I lie down and think about it and let my mind wander I usually find myself waking up many hours later.
- thrav 7y ago
  I also like the idea that it would be better labeled, “intention deficit disorder”. Dr. Barkley’s talk completely altered my understanding of the disorder. I always knew I had it. My life roughly paralleled the author’s. After failing out of school, I found workarounds that got me through the second time (thanks to extremely supportive parents). This video, combined with my wife’s urging, caused me to find a legitimate doctor who specialized in it (he’s ADHD too), and get treatment. I was already doing well with my coping mechanisms, but my life took off like a rocket with treatment. If anything in the article or the comments resonates, I would watch this ASAP: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo
SmirkingRevenge 7y ago
> I knew I was lazy And absent minded. And flighty. Thats why the homework never got done. Can binge on a video game for hours and hours, with a singular, obsessive focus. Therefore, no attention problem, right? (WRONG!) Talk to a doctor. Do be wary of the temptation to explain away all these failings that you presume are choices... thats always a very attractive scenario... but get a professional opinion.
- nickjj 7y ago
  > Can binge on a video game for hours and hours, with a singular, obsessive focus. Therefore, no attention problem, right? (WRONG!) Can you elaborate on that? Why is it wrong? I've thought about this topic a lot in the past. I remember back in the day I had massive gaming sessions (like 10 hours a day for weeks). Games that are competitive and "skillful" too, not just lounging around playing them 1 handed. It required tremendous focus. But when playing a game, you often have only 1 task happening which is "play the game", there's nothing distracting you and it requires your brain to actively be engaged. However if you replace gaming with writing a 5,000 word blog post or creating some web app suddenly that focus isn't there. If you can focus during the game, why can't you focus outside of it?
  - smileybarry 7y ago
    > I remember back in the day I had massive gaming sessions (like 10 hours a day for weeks). Games that are competitive and "skillful" too, not just lounging around playing them 1 handed. It required tremendous focus. It's deceptive; from the outside games seem like a single task that you can just focus on, unlike those other single tasks. But games are usually made up of a lot of things to keep track of, remember, etc. and it oddly works well for ADD/ADHD since you repeatedly switch focus between them all, something we're actually great at doing. Take a competitive game like Overwatch: there's the general things to focus that any FPS has, but you also have to keep other things in mind like: map layout, your own positioning, ability cooldowns, enemy positioning (where you remember them and where they're likely to be next), the objective, whatever strategy you or your team have, etc. Instead of being distracted off the single task of "playing Overwatch", you're actively switching between the different phases that make up "what am I going to do next", even if you don't notice it. Conversely, if a game is going slowly, you might get distracted and wander off looking for something more intense to do -- like killing an enemy -- and get yourself caught out of position. Or in a PvE-multiplayer/single-player sense, consider raids (10-20man group vs. 1 boss) in MMOs: you have your own character's attack rotation to do, but also the flow of the current boss to think about: incoming spells, curses/debuffs to watch for, positioning, next objective (if the boss is more phase-based rather than just repetitive attacking), etc. If you're a melee character positioning and moving might be a constant thing to focus on, too. Even if you're already used to it and it's automatic to you, it's still something your mind actively thinks about and switches focus between. Even in a game that has much less mechanics going on, your ADD/ADHD might just switch focus between the game's visuals, just as you physically get distracted by things around you (except this time they're the in-game environment and not distractions, but things the devs intended for you to interact with). TL;DR: A video game isn't a single, coherent task that goes from A-Z, it's a giant collection of many tiny repeating (but not necessarily repetitive) tasks that you constantly switch between, like a processor context-switching between processes. And that plays into ADD/ADHD's pros rather than cons.
SenHeng 7y ago
Whenever I have more than 10 tabs open, I add all of them except the one I'm actually reading right now into a 'to read' bookmark. I have hundreds of such bookmarks and sometimes when I'm in the mood (ie. bored and distracted) I'll rummage through it.
Sophistifunk 7y ago
I'm long-diagnosed (and medicated) ADHD, but this article still went straight to the wife as a great way for her to see a little more into my head.
omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
Haha! I have I think 800+ tabs open (not loaded) in firefox on my personal laptop, and who knows how many on my phone. This is with 27mg of Concerta and 40mg of Strattera every day. Caffeine's next to useless for me. I get a 15-45 minute energy burst on it in followed by a few hours of extreme drowsiness, which is usually not worth it.
netwanderer3 7y ago
"I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent -- their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy -- they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the intellectual clarity and the composure necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is stupid and diligent -- he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always cause only mischief." -Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord
- baxtr 7y ago
  Great quote. How is laziness defined in this? I am wondering if I am lazy or not. Sometimes I think I am, sometimes I am sure I am not. What's a good quick test for this?
  - stefanfisk 7y ago
    I image that a simple test for "clever and lazy" is if you'd rather come up wit6h valid and constructive ways of or reasons for not having to do something rather than actually doing it.
    - empressplay 7y ago
      Logistics. Finding the simplest and least resource-intensive way of accomplishing something. The laziest (and cheapest) and most clever person will come up with a solution that satisfies both requirements.
      - draugadrotten 7y ago
        Additionally, a lazy person will take any chance at delegating even important tasks to subordinates. This is a good thing, because without delegation, the leader is the bottleneck. If someone else can do it, delegate. "Clever and diligent" people will try to complete the most important tasks themselves to ensure they get done right, thus creating a bottleneck.
rurban 7y ago
> I just thought caffeine was my drug of choice. Everyone's addicted to something, right? That's probably sugar, not caffeine. Sugar is a much stronger drug than caffeine. Try coffee, not red bull.
soulofmischief 7y ago
I have a couple hundred tabs open across a few machines... It's a horrible cycle and every now and then Firefox feels sorry for me and corrupts my session so that I lose it all. Yes, all of those things are classic ADHD... But they barely even scratch the surface. That's just the "haha" relatable stuff. Time management issues are real. ADHD is, in essence, making a list of all the things you need to get done, placing the list in all areas you frequent as visible as possible, and then wondering how 16 hours went by and you're still on item #1 but now you know a whole lot about lizards that you didn't before. ADHD is also the reason you can get work done for 16 hours straight without distractions. The overdiagnosing of ADHD is only making things worse because it prevents some people from understanding when they need to make real lifestyle adjustments... both people who hide behind the diagnosis and people who refuse to take it seriously. In today's world of hyper-distraction this is becoming all the more pertinent. ADHD can affect people of all walks of life and level of intellect, and it can be paralyzing as an adult with the amount of sensory information present in today's society. And we still aren't even sure what environmental factors if any can cause ADHD... for all we know modern society is contributing.
- andai 7y ago
  From an article I saw here the other day > ...even short-term engagement with an extensively hyperlinked online environment (i.e., online shopping for 15 minutes) reduces attentional scope for a sustained duration after coming offline, whereas reading a magazine does not produce these deficits https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wps.20617 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wps.20617 Overdiagnosis is real -- being a developmental disorder, ADHD people present age-inappropriate behavior -- "you're too old for this." A lot of people simply grow out of it (although, the ADHD brain typically reaches maturity around the age of 35, so, it can take a while). But many people never grow out of it, so underdiagnosis of ADULT ADHD is real. In most countries, however, underdiagnosis is the real issue in most countries. I'm in the Netherlands and I went to a school for special children and talked to half a dozen therapists over ten years, and not one of them even considered it, while it's one of the most common disabilities, and considered one of the easiest to treat. I went to my GP and she had no idea about it, I basically had to explain the diagnostic criteria to her myself. It's possible I've just been really unlucky with the last 10 professionals I went to, but I think it's representative of the attitude in Europe -- especially the farther you go south and east.
Diederich 7y ago
These items pretty accurately described me before I started taking meds for ADHD, about 15 years ago. Over that time, I've taken a moderate dose of either Concerta (Ritalin extended release) or Adderall XR most days I work. I very rarely take the meds on weekends or holidays, and occasionally don't take them on work days. I've been doing tech work since the early 1990s, so a big chunk of my career was while I was untreated. For me, the meds have a simple to describe effect: the amount of mental energy I use to concentrate goes down greatly when the meds are in my system. I did some of my most innovative, creative work early in my career, before the meds. This was due to a number of factors, and I've done some pretty innovative stuff since, but not on that same level. (A big part was being in the right place at the right time.) But there was cost: even though I was in my 20s, coming home after concentrating for 8 or 9 hours, even after a full night's sleep, I would need to take a nap before finishing my evening. Many hours of concentration just drained me, because it took so much energy. The meds have changed little, for me, except allowing that focus to cost less.
enriquto 7y ago
> ... wait, aren't we all like that?
deleted 7y ago
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ryanobjc 7y ago
Quick question, and this is really for everyone else out there and although directed at you, it isn’t really about you. How do you KNOW that adhd is “overdiagnosed?” Are you a clinical psychiatrist? Or a clinical researcher? Probably not. You just saw some article written by a person who doesn’t specialize in the area. Who doesn’t have access to the full data, nor have any exposure to what’s REALLY going on out there. You don’t know. You just think you know because you saw some Netflix documentary about teenagers selling adderall pills. Remember selection bias: the narrative comes first and then we filter data to fit our idea of how the world “is.” Nominally what this means is people avoid getting treatment that could make a real difference to their life.
- Geimfari 7y ago
  ADHD is both overdiagnosed and underdiagnosed. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/17/joint-over-and-underdiagnosis/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/17/joint-over-and-underdi...
  - ryanobjc 7y ago
    Sorry I don’t accept this as a legitimate reference.
    - tbrownaw 7y ago
      Why not?
      - omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
        Because they're (neuro)typically annoying. :P Practically speaking any disorder that impairs executive functioning and uses Schedule II drugs in treatment is going to be over diagnosed because of malingering by people who want the drugs and under diagnosed in the population of individuals with the disorder because of impaired executive functioning and self awareness.
caprese 7y ago
My parents followed the “ADHD is overdiagnosed these other kids just need discipline” script. My brother as an adult was able to self diagnose and just try adderall(or was it ritalin) since even non-ADHD people get benefits concentrating with it, and yeah that worked out well for him, he doesnt continue using it and can approach professional work more holistically. I would attribute a lot of his academia challenges and underperformance to undiagnosed ADD/ADHD. Works great for the coked out party scene though. Got to swim in the right environment. I dont have the above experience, but I did take an in person class at a college recently. Havent otherwise done formal education in almost a decade. The first couple of sessions I was fidgeting and couldnt stand sitting still, which was shocking to me but I got acclimated after that. I cant imagine what children are going through, I think our environment isnt helping
Xelbair 7y ago
It was the same for me... except my tab counter is at 1399 and rising. I should probably see a psychologist someday.
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  I thought I was up there with 430. Clearly, I still have some way to go.
  - miguelrochefort 7y ago
    I reached 5000 a few times... I also have 10000 links in Pocket.
- ScottFree 7y ago
  My browser tends to crash at around 1000.
raducu 7y ago
It's not that you realize halfway through a meeting you haven't heard anything -- everybody does that from time to time -- it's when you CONSTANTLY struggle to follow what others are saying in a meeting, even when it's an important meeting; most of your peers have no trouble doing that; sure, some will also phase out, but they normally don't. It's on the level of the pot head in your team telling you "Dude, you're my hero, I've never seen someone not give a fuck like you" because he noticed you were not paying attention during a meeting. Everybody is losing focus in school, sure, everybody is losing their school items, sure, but not everybody sits on a test and then goes home with the test in his backpack, instead of submitting it, right? How many times have you boarded the wrong train or buss? How many times have you booked and airplane ticket with the wrong dates? Does everybody mess up their invoices on a regular basis, until it stresses you out enough that you triple check it every time? Do you only perform while anxious? Have you ever tried stimulants? I have and it was a HUGE "AA-HAAA, so I guess the chatter in my head is gone, I can sit at my desk for 2 hours straight, my pulse has gone from 90bpm to 60bpm, I'm completely calm, I guess this is how normal people feel everyday? "
- zilian 7y ago
  Isn't the chatter associated with other disorders such as depersonalization / anxiety / racing thoughts ? Asking because I experienced it under some stress & anxiety lately.
  - raducu 7y ago
    When I'm anxious, for sure the racing-thought/chatter is more pronounced; I've also been diagnosed with BPD and that psychiatrist actually asked me to do and ADD/ADHD test because these go hand-in-hand (I've scored 6/9 for ADD, which was apparently sub-threshold for ADD in adults). Depersonalization/feelings of emptiness -- I do experience those occasionally because those are part of BPD, but they've gone down significantly over the years and I have a pretty stable life right now. The bad thing for me is if I'm well rested/not anxious I'm usually not interested in doing anything at all; it's just my hypothesis that anxiety is my high-functioning mechanism for my ADD. While on certain stimulants (they're not all the same) things just click and I am very calm, zero chatter in my head, I feel a bit dumber than usual, but I also can just focus and do meaningful things. Other stimulants make me euphoric and while I can focus I can easily end up focusing on the wrong things; on other stimulants I'm more anxious than usual, more driven and still better able to focus; unfortunately I live in a country where adults cannot receive stimulants period, let alone find a psychiatrist who's willing to play with stimulants/non-stimulants, dosages and so on.
justbaker 7y ago
>I currently have 52 open tabs on my laptop and another 37 open on my desktop. What about the second desktop?
- ScottFree 7y ago
  Hahaha. Just the two computers for me, plus maybe 1 tab open on my phone. Luckily, my phone isn't as addictive to me as it is for other people. I type at 120wpm and having to slow all the way down to 30wpm on a phone stabs me to my very soul. My evernote and bookmarks are overflowing, though.
  - justbaker 7y ago
    >I type at 120wpm and having to slow all the way down to 30wpm on a phone stabs me to my very soul. I feel your pain. I hate typing on phones; feels so inefficient. It is definitely good to not have the 50 tabs problem mobile too.
playpause 7y ago
> ADHD's over diagnosed Source?
- ScottFree 7y ago
  No source. It's stream of thought. That's literally what was going through my mind when I read the title. I have no idea if it's true or if I just read a clickbait headline once and it stuck in my head.
beat 7y ago
First thing to do... close those tabs. They are the enemy. The human mind can only concentrate on a few things at a time even when "multitasking", and it cannot concentrate on anything else when working on a complex, concentration-oriented problem. Respect how your brain works, even if it goes against your ADD instincts. (Example, from a book on how thought works... you can concentrate on multiple things while driving, but you can't concentrate on multiple things while computing 57 x 432.61 in your head. There are two modes to thinking; one allows multitasking but limits complexity of individual tasks. The other allows deep complexity, but at the exclusion of thinking of anything else. So those 52 tabs? If you try to think about all of them, you can't think about any of them in a meaningful way. Pushing things off your plate is the most fundamental defense mechanism the ADD mind can have. Have one tab open. Or two or three. Finish what you're doing before trying to do something else. Don't let the squirrel do the thinking for you. You can outthink the squirrel.
barfingclouds 7y ago
I think maybe the best way to tell if you fall in this category is the subjective experiences. And like many things it can be a spectrum so you can have it to some degree. I know for me, I went to my dream college and studied exactly what I wanted to study, yet I couldn’t keep up. I went from getting mostly As in high school to eventually failing out (later to return). I was under immense psychological stress and couldn’t get myself to do basic things. I was always overwhelmed. I couldn’t and still can’t be in social situations when loud music is nearby. I’ve essentially had to reshape my life to work around this. It made me nearly non-functional. And years later, now that I’ve built my life in a way where it works with my ADD, I can be incredibly productive and imaginative and innovative.

internet_user 7y ago

Perhaps ADHD is a frequent misdiagnosis. They are not uncommon in medicine, which is really guesswork in white coats. However, actual ADHD, and other similar attentional or executive function impairments are very likely to be under diagnosed BIG TIME.

zilian 7y ago
Perhaps for some people ADHD is transitional, chronic - related to serious anxiety / pressure. I don't think everything is always 0 or 1

tudelo 7y ago

Honestly I had/have many similar symptoms (of course there is more than can be written in a short comment) and was diagnosed and started medication over a year ago. It has been very positive for me. YMMV.

ddxxdd 7y ago

An ADHD diagnosis is based roughly on a 5-percentile standard[0]. In other words, if you are a hardworking, industrious person, but the rest of society is harder-working and more industrious, then you automatically become ADHD-diagnosed by virtue of being on the left side of the bell curve. It's also worth noting that in France, ADHD is seen as a problem with a child's environment instead of a medical issue[1]. [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo... [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/201203/why-french-kids-dont-have-adhd https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/suffer-the-children/...

internet_user 7y ago
Almost all "normal" levels on your bloodwork and all other tests are essentially 2 standard deviation cut offs. Context and history is just as important.
travisp 7y ago
France also generally views autism this way and fails to diagnose and properly treat autistic children. It’s a huge problem and probably ruins many families and children’s lives. I would not be surprised if in a couple decades we are talking about the “shame” of France’s approach to ADHD as well. https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17583123 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17583123 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/france-is-50-years-behind-the-state-scandal-of-french-autism-treatment https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/08/france-is-50-y... https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(14)70290-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0...

DoreenMichele 7y ago

A lot of Twice Exceptional* people get labeled lazy. It may not be ADHD. It may be some other hidden issue. In the vast majority of cases, people who get identified as an adult seem to be tremendously relieved and empowered by having a better label than lazy. * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_exceptional

internet_user 7y ago
Twice exceptional people with a solid track record of underachieving? How is that in any way exceptional? * Executive function is affected by all those disorders you mention in the wiki. And the best proxy we know of and can measure is attention.
- xkcd-sucks 7y ago
  One of the two "exceptions" is mental illness so
- andrewflnr 7y ago
  There are other axes by which to assess humans than "acheivement". There are even other axes for value! Someone can be "exceptional" along any of them.
  - internet_user 7y ago
    Goal oriented self-directed behavior is what distinguishes us from apes. Underachieving is just inability to deploy your efforts effectively, or even inability to muster an effort in the worst cases. That translates to every domain and aspect of human life from scholastic to social to friendships etc etc etc. Value is not entirely subjective.
    - zingermc 7y ago
      Life isn't deterministic.

firecall 7y ago

I have ADHD. There are other serious neurological issues connected to ADHD. It's a very misunderstood disorder with a broad spectrum of identifiable symptoms that could indicate ADHD. If you are heavily medicating with caffeine, then that can be a signal. I was using Pseudoephedrine and caffeine to self medicate and stabilise my moods and behaviours. That was before I got prescribed Ritalin. But as the article says, I find Ritalin dulls my creative thinking and pattern matching that is required for insightful realisations. Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria is big problem for me. I over think things, the slightest misread comment can ruin my day. I also have a problem with cyclical depression and euphoric highs that are a bit like bi-polar but not as severe. So yeah - It's hell. I hate having ADHD. I never looked for a diagnosis, but when I got one it was a light-bulb moment. Life still sucks. It's not a super-power and I'm not blessed.

nerdbaggy 7y ago
RSD is a nightmare for me. Something I always have to work on
- icxa 7y ago
  My "coping" mechanism, annoying for some, I am sure, but I just bluntly immediately ask for feedback and try to get to the bottom of it as soon as possible. I am fortunate enough to have a manager that understands my condition and he offers me plenty of "spot" feedback which I cannot appreciate more.
  - firecall 7y ago
    I totally relate to that! I do it as well - I often cant leave something alone. It drives my wife insane as I'll just keep on about it when she wants to move on and let it go. I do it at work sometimes too, and it can come across as a bit intimidating, especially with people who dont like up front confrontation.
    - icxa 7y ago
      Have you found any support groups or any that were affective? I have taken a cursory glance at some support groups available to me in the past, plus some internet circles, but found them not personal enough to be effective or I felt too detached from the people involved from their day to day problems. But I feel like I, as well as other ADHD folk would benefit from some sort of HN "accountability" partner or group that understands the condition but also the type of work we do.

xyzzy_plugh 7y ago

FWIW, I was the same, until I ran into some issues at work. Talking to a medical professional was eye opening. It's worth having he conversation, at the very least. I was very skeptical after being diagnosed. Then I forgot to renew my prescription the other week and it was utter chaos. I can't believe how much focus and discipline I used to lack.

vikiomega9 7y ago
How did the professional help?
- falcolas 7y ago
  Meds aside (which do help, and not all will trigger personality or physical changes), there are some coping mechanisms which you can pick up. Even with meds, you’re really only given a bit more control over your attention, so having coping mechanisms are still useful.
- xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
  I was referred to a psychiatrist who had me fill out a questionnaire, and we spent about an hour iterating through my life beginning from childhood. The questions they asked, individually, felt meaningless, but trends emerged fast. I get that these questions can be gamed if you're just seeking a prescription, but in my case I'm generally quite hesitant to take these sorts of drugs. I have close friends who had many very messed up years due to struggles with ADHD medication. Now I feel like I'm living life with my eyes open. Far from perfect, but I am able to have ownership of my issues.

blotter_paper 7y ago

Yeah. I don't want to be somebody who jumps on the bandwagon and self-diagnoses themselves with ADHD, but I also fall into all of these categories, have developed a bunch of his coping mechanisms on my own (the lists part really hit home, I cannot get shit done without making multiple lists and sub-lists throughout the day so that I have an anchor to fall back on when I'm getting distracted), and consume gratuitous amounts of caffeine to keep focused. I've gone through a gallon and a half of Monster in a single day on many occasions, though my normal daily consumption peaked at about 3/4 of a gallon. I've had other people suggest that I might have ADHD as well, but I have no desire to get a diagnosis even if the doc would agree. I'm doing alright with myself and making improvements over time. I do appreciate articles like this because whether or not I have "ADHD" I do have a bunch of overlapping symptoms/patterns-of-behavior, and reading about how other people cope with similar experiences seems useful.

stefanfisk 7y ago
As someone who was diagnosed just about a month ago after a lifetime of coping I’m curious, what’s the argument against diagnosis?
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  I'm certainly not arguing that anybody else should avoid diagnosis. I don't expect this to be a popular opinion, but I tend to stay away from medical practitioners in general. The last time I broke a bone I did some googling and treated it at home; I generally feel like the time and money needed to access professional medical advice isn't worth the knowledge which is already available at my fingertips faster and cheaper. If I were to get diagnosed at some point, it would be because society won't let me buy kiddie-meth (Ritalin/Vivance) over the counter. I've tried kiddie-meth four times illicitly, and it did wonders for me, but I'm not yet ready to incorporate it into my regular drug stack. I worry about potential effects from prolonged use (the "dulling" some people describe), and it makes me prone to giving <i>all</i> of my effort to the task at hand even when that isn't actually clever. I'm not ready to burn that filament yet. If I were throwing everything I had into a startup, I could totally see getting on the stuff. I'm about a decade from that point in life by my best approximations. As a side note, I accidentally smoked a little bit of actual-meth once (the guy who packed the bowl didn't tell me there was meth in it -- long story), and the effects were very similar. I didn't realise why I had been in such a great flow-state until it was revealed to me about a week later.

philliphaydon 7y ago

> > I was happiest with my nose in the book > I'm seeing a disturbing pattern take shape. I fall into alot of the list but I will say I do not suffer from ADHD. When I was at school I was told I had ADHD and put on Ritalin. But I couldn't tell the difference between taking ritalin and not taking it, I didn't focus any better, didn't get in trouble any less. I always figured I wasn't challenged enough in school, or wasn't doing something I enjoyed. If I was doing technical drawing I always got top of the class and helped the other kids with their work. In History class we learned about NZ history which is like 150 years of nothing, so I couldn't focus, yet you give me a book about Egypt and I'm fascinated and sit for hours reading. Fast forward many years and I watched: https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity https://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_cre... ADHD is a real thing, but I recon majority of people 'diagnosed' with ADHD, don't actually suffer from it. And I don't believe the Author suffers from it.

stefanfisk 7y ago
My partner went to a Waldorf school grade 1 through 12, and whenever we discuss what school was like it blows my mind that she has no idea about just how horribly "regular" schools are at fostering creativity and interest. She has been diagnosed with ADHD as an adult because she has a REALLY hard time with handling everyday life, but for her school was never a problem because of the "fluid" philosophy of Waldorf. While I like Sir Robinson's talk, for me The Seven-Lesson Schoolteacher is what really struck a cord: http://www.swaraj.org/multiversity/gatto_7lesson.htm http://www.swaraj.org/multiversity/gatto_7lesson.htm. I always felt like the school system (in Sweden at least) mainly wanted to students to fit into it, rather than the other way around. So as someone who is gifted according to WISC and WAIS, but who lacks the executive functioning and skill to do anything except whatever happens to be the most interesting at the moment, it was just hell. Even now at age 36 my body goes stiff whenever someone mentions homework O_O
justin66 7y ago
> And I don't believe the Author suffers from it. The author was diagnosed after multiple sessions with a medical professional.

puskavi 7y ago

...yeah, that happened. I were in ADHD tests but I was told I may just have "small_brain_clipboard", never heard anything back.. ...........

manyxcxi 7y ago

I was officially diagnosed at age 32. This wasn’t some pill mill diagnosis either. I worked with my psych for 3 months before we tried any meds, it would’ve been longer but I had accidentally discovered most of the practical methods for dealing with it on my own. Two great reliefs came from the diagnosis: 1. I’m not a lazy, unmotivated person 2. Meds, at the right dose, are amazing. When my Vyvanse kicks in, it’s like walking away from an outdoor block party in my brain and getting into a sound proof booth where I can hear only the noise I want (or have) to. Things I lived with my whole life that were both positive and negative depending on the circumstances: - I can’t even stand the thought of a task, class, or activity I’m not interested in, but if I’m even slightly interested I can go deep fast and keep going with no loss of zeal until I’m satisfied. Basically, I can get super obsessed with stuff for short or long periods of time. My hobby background is ridiculously all over the place. - I think and iterate my thoughts faster than most people can keep up, and I iterate my thoughts externally, if I’m on a roll good luck getting a word in between breaths. My psych “classified” me as a second order thinker and I run lots of what-if permutations and shave and shape creative solutions very fast. It also means I must be extremely cognizant of letting other be heard, especially those that like to ruminate on an idea and bring it to light more fully formed. - My leg never stopped bouncing, helpful when I played music to keep time, annoying to anyone near me. - I’m quick to temper and just as fast back to moving on. - Little to no patience for bullshit or things I just am not interested in. Don’t tell me a detailed story of how to get there, just give me the highlights. I do t care about how you feel about some objective thing, just give me the facts and let’s keep moving. Lots of other stuff, but basically I coped, unknowingly by creating rituals that allowed me to not forget or have to waste time finding things: - Get home, keys and wallet go in the exact same place every time - Todo list for next week created at the end of every Friday, revised at the end of every week day, and reviewed every morning - The thing I want to do least is the thing I force myself to do first, and nothing else until it’s done - Organize my schedule in a calendar, if it’s not in there it doesn’t exist and I won’t remember - Just remembered to put that thing in the car for tomorrow and I’m laying in bed? Get up RIGHT NOW and go do it. - Can’t forget your coat if your car keys are always in them - My working area is spotless. No bobble heads on the desk or stacks of papers. Desk is completely clear, cables neatly organized, zip tied, and hidden. Here’s the thing, maybe you do have ADHD. Maybe you don’t. The rituals you focus on and make so habitual you don’t even have to think about them will still work for you.

taneq 7y ago

I just thought "tick!" an uncomfortable number of times in a row while reading that. Gonna go get a coffee.

fouc 7y ago

I think the best description of ADHD I heard was that it has more to do with an "attention-switching" deficit. People with ADHD are capable of intense focus on highly stimulating things like a good book. The intensity of focus drowns out everything else, making it hard to deal with other important tasks until the book is finished. It's also much more difficult to maintain their attention on things that are no longer stimulating. So ADHD folks are great at starting interesting projects, but once the space of possibilities has been narrowed down and all that's left is hammering it out, it becomes intensely difficult to maintain attention on that due to lack of stimulation.

nsilvestri 7y ago
The attention switching idea seems consistent with my own experiences. I dated a girl with pretty severe ADHD; whenever she watched Arrested Development (a very fast paced sitcom with a lot happening) she would turn into a zombie and be almost entirely oblivious to any outside stimuli.
- thrav 7y ago
  I have ADHD and have literally trained myself to use Arrested Development to put myself to sleep. Always the same episode. Even with the most crowded mind, I lay down with one earbud in, and I can’t make it 3 minutes without passing out. The rapid dialogue means there’s no opportunity for intrusive thoughts to enter, but I know it all by heart, so there’s zero intrigue in any of it.
  - Mirioron 7y ago
    I have a similar situation, but it's a daydream. If I lie down and think about it and let my mind wander I usually find myself waking up many hours later.
thrav 7y ago
I also like the idea that it would be better labeled, “intention deficit disorder”. Dr. Barkley’s talk completely altered my understanding of the disorder. I always knew I had it. My life roughly paralleled the author’s. After failing out of school, I found workarounds that got me through the second time (thanks to extremely supportive parents). This video, combined with my wife’s urging, caused me to find a legitimate doctor who specialized in it (he’s ADHD too), and get treatment. I was already doing well with my coping mechanisms, but my life took off like a rocket with treatment. If anything in the article or the comments resonates, I would watch this ASAP: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SCAGc-rkIfo

SmirkingRevenge 7y ago

> I knew I was lazy And absent minded. And flighty. Thats why the homework never got done. Can binge on a video game for hours and hours, with a singular, obsessive focus. Therefore, no attention problem, right? (WRONG!) Talk to a doctor. Do be wary of the temptation to explain away all these failings that you presume are choices... thats always a very attractive scenario... but get a professional opinion.

nickjj 7y ago
> Can binge on a video game for hours and hours, with a singular, obsessive focus. Therefore, no attention problem, right? (WRONG!) Can you elaborate on that? Why is it wrong? I've thought about this topic a lot in the past. I remember back in the day I had massive gaming sessions (like 10 hours a day for weeks). Games that are competitive and "skillful" too, not just lounging around playing them 1 handed. It required tremendous focus. But when playing a game, you often have only 1 task happening which is "play the game", there's nothing distracting you and it requires your brain to actively be engaged. However if you replace gaming with writing a 5,000 word blog post or creating some web app suddenly that focus isn't there. If you can focus during the game, why can't you focus outside of it?
- smileybarry 7y ago
  > I remember back in the day I had massive gaming sessions (like 10 hours a day for weeks). Games that are competitive and "skillful" too, not just lounging around playing them 1 handed. It required tremendous focus. It's deceptive; from the outside games seem like a single task that you can just focus on, unlike those other single tasks. But games are usually made up of a lot of things to keep track of, remember, etc. and it oddly works well for ADD/ADHD since you repeatedly switch focus between them all, something we're actually great at doing. Take a competitive game like Overwatch: there's the general things to focus that any FPS has, but you also have to keep other things in mind like: map layout, your own positioning, ability cooldowns, enemy positioning (where you remember them and where they're likely to be next), the objective, whatever strategy you or your team have, etc. Instead of being distracted off the single task of "playing Overwatch", you're actively switching between the different phases that make up "what am I going to do next", even if you don't notice it. Conversely, if a game is going slowly, you might get distracted and wander off looking for something more intense to do -- like killing an enemy -- and get yourself caught out of position. Or in a PvE-multiplayer/single-player sense, consider raids (10-20man group vs. 1 boss) in MMOs: you have your own character's attack rotation to do, but also the flow of the current boss to think about: incoming spells, curses/debuffs to watch for, positioning, next objective (if the boss is more phase-based rather than just repetitive attacking), etc. If you're a melee character positioning and moving might be a constant thing to focus on, too. Even if you're already used to it and it's automatic to you, it's still something your mind actively thinks about and switches focus between. Even in a game that has much less mechanics going on, your ADD/ADHD might just switch focus between the game's visuals, just as you physically get distracted by things around you (except this time they're the in-game environment and not distractions, but things the devs intended for you to interact with). TL;DR: A video game isn't a single, coherent task that goes from A-Z, it's a giant collection of many tiny repeating (but not necessarily repetitive) tasks that you constantly switch between, like a processor context-switching between processes. And that plays into ADD/ADHD's pros rather than cons.

SenHeng 7y ago

Whenever I have more than 10 tabs open, I add all of them except the one I'm actually reading right now into a 'to read' bookmark. I have hundreds of such bookmarks and sometimes when I'm in the mood (ie. bored and distracted) I'll rummage through it.

Sophistifunk 7y ago

I'm long-diagnosed (and medicated) ADHD, but this article still went straight to the wife as a great way for her to see a little more into my head.

omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago

Haha! I have I think 800+ tabs open (not loaded) in firefox on my personal laptop, and who knows how many on my phone. This is with 27mg of Concerta and 40mg of Strattera every day. Caffeine's next to useless for me. I get a 15-45 minute energy burst on it in followed by a few hours of extreme drowsiness, which is usually not worth it.

netwanderer3 7y ago

"I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent -- their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy -- they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the intellectual clarity and the composure necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is stupid and diligent -- he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always cause only mischief." -Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord

baxtr 7y ago
Great quote. How is laziness defined in this? I am wondering if I am lazy or not. Sometimes I think I am, sometimes I am sure I am not. What's a good quick test for this?
- stefanfisk 7y ago
  I image that a simple test for "clever and lazy" is if you'd rather come up wit6h valid and constructive ways of or reasons for not having to do something rather than actually doing it.
  - empressplay 7y ago
    Logistics. Finding the simplest and least resource-intensive way of accomplishing something. The laziest (and cheapest) and most clever person will come up with a solution that satisfies both requirements.
    - draugadrotten 7y ago
      Additionally, a lazy person will take any chance at delegating even important tasks to subordinates. This is a good thing, because without delegation, the leader is the bottleneck. If someone else can do it, delegate. "Clever and diligent" people will try to complete the most important tasks themselves to ensure they get done right, thus creating a bottleneck.

rurban 7y ago

> I just thought caffeine was my drug of choice. Everyone's addicted to something, right? That's probably sugar, not caffeine. Sugar is a much stronger drug than caffeine. Try coffee, not red bull.

soulofmischief 7y ago

I have a couple hundred tabs open across a few machines... It's a horrible cycle and every now and then Firefox feels sorry for me and corrupts my session so that I lose it all. Yes, all of those things are classic ADHD... But they barely even scratch the surface. That's just the "haha" relatable stuff. Time management issues are real. ADHD is, in essence, making a list of all the things you need to get done, placing the list in all areas you frequent as visible as possible, and then wondering how 16 hours went by and you're still on item #1 but now you know a whole lot about lizards that you didn't before. ADHD is also the reason you can get work done for 16 hours straight without distractions. The overdiagnosing of ADHD is only making things worse because it prevents some people from understanding when they need to make real lifestyle adjustments... both people who hide behind the diagnosis and people who refuse to take it seriously. In today's world of hyper-distraction this is becoming all the more pertinent. ADHD can affect people of all walks of life and level of intellect, and it can be paralyzing as an adult with the amount of sensory information present in today's society. And we still aren't even sure what environmental factors if any can cause ADHD... for all we know modern society is contributing.

andai 7y ago
From an article I saw here the other day > ...even short-term engagement with an extensively hyperlinked online environment (i.e., online shopping for 15 minutes) reduces attentional scope for a sustained duration after coming offline, whereas reading a magazine does not produce these deficits https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wps.20617 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wps.20617 Overdiagnosis is real -- being a developmental disorder, ADHD people present age-inappropriate behavior -- "you're too old for this." A lot of people simply grow out of it (although, the ADHD brain typically reaches maturity around the age of 35, so, it can take a while). But many people never grow out of it, so underdiagnosis of ADULT ADHD is real. In most countries, however, underdiagnosis is the real issue in most countries. I'm in the Netherlands and I went to a school for special children and talked to half a dozen therapists over ten years, and not one of them even considered it, while it's one of the most common disabilities, and considered one of the easiest to treat. I went to my GP and she had no idea about it, I basically had to explain the diagnostic criteria to her myself. It's possible I've just been really unlucky with the last 10 professionals I went to, but I think it's representative of the attitude in Europe -- especially the farther you go south and east.

Diederich 7y ago

These items pretty accurately described me before I started taking meds for ADHD, about 15 years ago. Over that time, I've taken a moderate dose of either Concerta (Ritalin extended release) or Adderall XR most days I work. I very rarely take the meds on weekends or holidays, and occasionally don't take them on work days. I've been doing tech work since the early 1990s, so a big chunk of my career was while I was untreated. For me, the meds have a simple to describe effect: the amount of mental energy I use to concentrate goes down greatly when the meds are in my system. I did some of my most innovative, creative work early in my career, before the meds. This was due to a number of factors, and I've done some pretty innovative stuff since, but not on that same level. (A big part was being in the right place at the right time.) But there was cost: even though I was in my 20s, coming home after concentrating for 8 or 9 hours, even after a full night's sleep, I would need to take a nap before finishing my evening. Many hours of concentration just drained me, because it took so much energy. The meds have changed little, for me, except allowing that focus to cost less.

enriquto 7y ago

> ... wait, aren't we all like that?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ryanobjc 7y ago

Quick question, and this is really for everyone else out there and although directed at you, it isn’t really about you. How do you KNOW that adhd is “overdiagnosed?” Are you a clinical psychiatrist? Or a clinical researcher? Probably not. You just saw some article written by a person who doesn’t specialize in the area. Who doesn’t have access to the full data, nor have any exposure to what’s REALLY going on out there. You don’t know. You just think you know because you saw some Netflix documentary about teenagers selling adderall pills. Remember selection bias: the narrative comes first and then we filter data to fit our idea of how the world “is.” Nominally what this means is people avoid getting treatment that could make a real difference to their life.

Geimfari 7y ago
ADHD is both overdiagnosed and underdiagnosed. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/17/joint-over-and-underdiagnosis/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/17/joint-over-and-underdi...
- ryanobjc 7y ago
  Sorry I don’t accept this as a legitimate reference.
  - tbrownaw 7y ago
    Why not?
    - omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
      Because they're (neuro)typically annoying. :P Practically speaking any disorder that impairs executive functioning and uses Schedule II drugs in treatment is going to be over diagnosed because of malingering by people who want the drugs and under diagnosed in the population of individuals with the disorder because of impaired executive functioning and self awareness.

caprese 7y ago

My parents followed the “ADHD is overdiagnosed these other kids just need discipline” script. My brother as an adult was able to self diagnose and just try adderall(or was it ritalin) since even non-ADHD people get benefits concentrating with it, and yeah that worked out well for him, he doesnt continue using it and can approach professional work more holistically. I would attribute a lot of his academia challenges and underperformance to undiagnosed ADD/ADHD. Works great for the coked out party scene though. Got to swim in the right environment. I dont have the above experience, but I did take an in person class at a college recently. Havent otherwise done formal education in almost a decade. The first couple of sessions I was fidgeting and couldnt stand sitting still, which was shocking to me but I got acclimated after that. I cant imagine what children are going through, I think our environment isnt helping

Xelbair 7y ago

It was the same for me... except my tab counter is at 1399 and rising. I should probably see a psychologist someday.

TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
I thought I was up there with 430. Clearly, I still have some way to go.
- miguelrochefort 7y ago
  I reached 5000 a few times... I also have 10000 links in Pocket.
ScottFree 7y ago
My browser tends to crash at around 1000.

raducu 7y ago

It's not that you realize halfway through a meeting you haven't heard anything -- everybody does that from time to time -- it's when you CONSTANTLY struggle to follow what others are saying in a meeting, even when it's an important meeting; most of your peers have no trouble doing that; sure, some will also phase out, but they normally don't. It's on the level of the pot head in your team telling you "Dude, you're my hero, I've never seen someone not give a fuck like you" because he noticed you were not paying attention during a meeting. Everybody is losing focus in school, sure, everybody is losing their school items, sure, but not everybody sits on a test and then goes home with the test in his backpack, instead of submitting it, right? How many times have you boarded the wrong train or buss? How many times have you booked and airplane ticket with the wrong dates? Does everybody mess up their invoices on a regular basis, until it stresses you out enough that you triple check it every time? Do you only perform while anxious? Have you ever tried stimulants? I have and it was a HUGE "AA-HAAA, so I guess the chatter in my head is gone, I can sit at my desk for 2 hours straight, my pulse has gone from 90bpm to 60bpm, I'm completely calm, I guess this is how normal people feel everyday? "

zilian 7y ago
Isn't the chatter associated with other disorders such as depersonalization / anxiety / racing thoughts ? Asking because I experienced it under some stress & anxiety lately.
- raducu 7y ago
  When I'm anxious, for sure the racing-thought/chatter is more pronounced; I've also been diagnosed with BPD and that psychiatrist actually asked me to do and ADD/ADHD test because these go hand-in-hand (I've scored 6/9 for ADD, which was apparently sub-threshold for ADD in adults). Depersonalization/feelings of emptiness -- I do experience those occasionally because those are part of BPD, but they've gone down significantly over the years and I have a pretty stable life right now. The bad thing for me is if I'm well rested/not anxious I'm usually not interested in doing anything at all; it's just my hypothesis that anxiety is my high-functioning mechanism for my ADD. While on certain stimulants (they're not all the same) things just click and I am very calm, zero chatter in my head, I feel a bit dumber than usual, but I also can just focus and do meaningful things. Other stimulants make me euphoric and while I can focus I can easily end up focusing on the wrong things; on other stimulants I'm more anxious than usual, more driven and still better able to focus; unfortunately I live in a country where adults cannot receive stimulants period, let alone find a psychiatrist who's willing to play with stimulants/non-stimulants, dosages and so on.

justbaker 7y ago

>I currently have 52 open tabs on my laptop and another 37 open on my desktop. What about the second desktop?

ScottFree 7y ago
Hahaha. Just the two computers for me, plus maybe 1 tab open on my phone. Luckily, my phone isn't as addictive to me as it is for other people. I type at 120wpm and having to slow all the way down to 30wpm on a phone stabs me to my very soul. My evernote and bookmarks are overflowing, though.
- justbaker 7y ago
  >I type at 120wpm and having to slow all the way down to 30wpm on a phone stabs me to my very soul. I feel your pain. I hate typing on phones; feels so inefficient. It is definitely good to not have the 50 tabs problem mobile too.

playpause 7y ago

> ADHD's over diagnosed Source?

ScottFree 7y ago
No source. It's stream of thought. That's literally what was going through my mind when I read the title. I have no idea if it's true or if I just read a clickbait headline once and it stuck in my head.

beat 7y ago

First thing to do... close those tabs. They are the enemy. The human mind can only concentrate on a few things at a time even when "multitasking", and it cannot concentrate on anything else when working on a complex, concentration-oriented problem. Respect how your brain works, even if it goes against your ADD instincts. (Example, from a book on how thought works... you can concentrate on multiple things while driving, but you can't concentrate on multiple things while computing 57 x 432.61 in your head. There are two modes to thinking; one allows multitasking but limits complexity of individual tasks. The other allows deep complexity, but at the exclusion of thinking of anything else. So those 52 tabs? If you try to think about all of them, you can't think about any of them in a meaningful way. Pushing things off your plate is the most fundamental defense mechanism the ADD mind can have. Have one tab open. Or two or three. Finish what you're doing before trying to do something else. Don't let the squirrel do the thinking for you. You can outthink the squirrel.

barfingclouds 7y ago

I think maybe the best way to tell if you fall in this category is the subjective experiences. And like many things it can be a spectrum so you can have it to some degree. I know for me, I went to my dream college and studied exactly what I wanted to study, yet I couldn’t keep up. I went from getting mostly As in high school to eventually failing out (later to return). I was under immense psychological stress and couldn’t get myself to do basic things. I was always overwhelmed. I couldn’t and still can’t be in social situations when loud music is nearby. I’ve essentially had to reshape my life to work around this. It made me nearly non-functional. And years later, now that I’ve built my life in a way where it works with my ADD, I can be incredibly productive and imaginative and innovative.