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That's exactly what I'm saying. Free college doesn't solve the problem, because the real problem isn't the cost of college, it's people pursuing degrees that ar

That's exactly what I'm saying. Free college doesn't solve the problem, because the real problem isn't the cost of college, it's people pursuing degrees that aren't useful in the real world.

anon1m0us 7y ago
Ah, I see. So we should have free practical education. Free engineering universities and such, but not free ... let's call them, humanities universities? I'd be ok with that. If you want a humanities degree, then you have to pay. Maybe those still have student loans, but not big ones.
- rayiner 7y ago
  But we won’t get that. American culture and politics won’t permit it. (I can see the New Yorker articles now.) Not only that, we won’t even get the quota systems for different majors various European countries have. It’ll be underwater basket weaving for everyone, at the public expense.
  - anon1m0us 7y ago
    Perhaps I'm an idealist, but I think we can do it right. We had two tracks in high school. the ones who could go to college stayed in class all day. The others who were slated for blue collar jobs went to trade school for the first half of the day, then took essential classes in the afternoon.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      > Perhaps I'm an idealist, but I think we can do it right. Our politics would never allow dual tracking. (There are many things that Europe does fine, such as public education, and transit, that Europe does just fine, but which we can’t do as well because of cultural differences.)
      - anon1m0us 7y ago
        We have dual tracks now. We are allowing it. You mean at a national level?
- p1necone 7y ago
  What are these "good" degrees, and what are the "bad" degrees? Have you actually looked at data or are you just going off gut feeling here?
  - larrywright 7y ago
    It's gut feel, but I've heard a lot of similar stories from people I know. Good degrees: medical (nursing, nutrition, etc), computer science, most engineering degrees, math. Bad degrees: most of the liberal arts degrees. English, theatre, journalism etc. These are broad generalizations, obviously. There are people with "bad" degrees who make a good living. There are people with "good" degrees who are struggling. But when I see people complaining that they have huge amounts of debt and are unemployed or underemployed, it's almost universally people who have the degrees I labeled bad. Some of the issue seems to be just a general lack of planning - they decide to pursue a degree in X, but don't really have a plan for what kind of job they want. Some of the issue seems to be a stubbornness to accept that maybe the thing they got a degree in (often their "passion" - a concept that needs to die) may not be the thing they build a career on. Someone who got a degree in theatre because they really loved being in plays in high school, for example (an actual example I saw recently in a Humans of New York post). They probably need to accept that theatre is a hobby (at least for them), and pursue a career in something else. An actual example from someone I know who went through this process with her daughter: The daughter had decided she wanted to go to an out of state school and major in journalism, and then move to some specific city to work when she was done with school. Her mother sat her down and they ran the numbers on what the school would cost vs what her parents could help her with financially, what the average person with a journalism degree makes out of college, and what the cost of living was in the city she wanted to live in was. The numbers didn't add up. The college was expensive and would have left her with lots of debt, the journalism degree didn't leave her with very many choices in terms of careers, and the cost of living in the city she wanted to live in was pretty high. So, they talked it through and the daughter ended up doing two years of community college (much cheaper) before going to a less expensive in-state school, she got a degree in english (yes, I labeled it a bad degree - it's probably not in this case), and opted to live in a cheaper city once she'd graduated (she's still in college). This is the activity that's missing from most college-bound kids lives.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Free college doesn't solve the problem, because the real problem isn't the cost of college, it's people pursuing degrees that aren't useful in the real world.

anon1m0us 7y ago

Ah, I see. So we should have free practical education. Free engineering universities and such, but not free ... let's call them, humanities universities? I'd be ok with that. If you want a humanities degree, then you have to pay. Maybe those still have student loans, but not big ones.

rayiner 7y ago
But we won’t get that. American culture and politics won’t permit it. (I can see the New Yorker articles now.) Not only that, we won’t even get the quota systems for different majors various European countries have. It’ll be underwater basket weaving for everyone, at the public expense.
- anon1m0us 7y ago
  Perhaps I'm an idealist, but I think we can do it right. We had two tracks in high school. the ones who could go to college stayed in class all day. The others who were slated for blue collar jobs went to trade school for the first half of the day, then took essential classes in the afternoon.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    > Perhaps I'm an idealist, but I think we can do it right. Our politics would never allow dual tracking. (There are many things that Europe does fine, such as public education, and transit, that Europe does just fine, but which we can’t do as well because of cultural differences.)
    - anon1m0us 7y ago
      We have dual tracks now. We are allowing it. You mean at a national level?
p1necone 7y ago
What are these "good" degrees, and what are the "bad" degrees? Have you actually looked at data or are you just going off gut feeling here?
- larrywright 7y ago
  It's gut feel, but I've heard a lot of similar stories from people I know. Good degrees: medical (nursing, nutrition, etc), computer science, most engineering degrees, math. Bad degrees: most of the liberal arts degrees. English, theatre, journalism etc. These are broad generalizations, obviously. There are people with "bad" degrees who make a good living. There are people with "good" degrees who are struggling. But when I see people complaining that they have huge amounts of debt and are unemployed or underemployed, it's almost universally people who have the degrees I labeled bad. Some of the issue seems to be just a general lack of planning - they decide to pursue a degree in X, but don't really have a plan for what kind of job they want. Some of the issue seems to be a stubbornness to accept that maybe the thing they got a degree in (often their "passion" - a concept that needs to die) may not be the thing they build a career on. Someone who got a degree in theatre because they really loved being in plays in high school, for example (an actual example I saw recently in a Humans of New York post). They probably need to accept that theatre is a hobby (at least for them), and pursue a career in something else. An actual example from someone I know who went through this process with her daughter: The daughter had decided she wanted to go to an out of state school and major in journalism, and then move to some specific city to work when she was done with school. Her mother sat her down and they ran the numbers on what the school would cost vs what her parents could help her with financially, what the average person with a journalism degree makes out of college, and what the cost of living was in the city she wanted to live in was. The numbers didn't add up. The college was expensive and would have left her with lots of debt, the journalism degree didn't leave her with very many choices in terms of careers, and the cost of living in the city she wanted to live in was pretty high. So, they talked it through and the daughter ended up doing two years of community college (much cheaper) before going to a less expensive in-state school, she got a degree in english (yes, I labeled it a bad degree - it's probably not in this case), and opted to live in a cheaper city once she'd graduated (she's still in college). This is the activity that's missing from most college-bound kids lives.