4 ms·

Education has yourself as return.

by anticensor 7y ago

nordsieck 7y ago
> Education has yourself as return. That is not something a lender can repossess.
- SilasX 7y ago
  Not as they currently do it, no, but I imagine (at least with future loans), it could have the penalty that the university would not issue your transcript or vouch for your degree when the loan became delinquent enough. That would be similar in spirit repossession (except that the bank couldn't sell it). But of course, they wouldn't get to take back any of that valuable knowledge and human capital you acquired there /semi-s
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    Schools already do that with debts, but most student loans for accredited schools aren't issued by the school, who has been fully paid by the lender.
  - djakjxnanjak 7y ago
    College degrees are mostly about signaling. Employers can already check your credit history, so this wouldn’t tell them much they don’t already know.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    The whole point of repossession is that he bank can sell it to recover at least some of their loss. Without that, it’s just destructive punishment. You’d be making society poorer by restricting this person’s job prospects, with no gain anywhere to offset it.
    - SilasX 7y ago
      I don’t know how you get “the whole point” as being that. The credit scoring system likewise doesn’t give the lender anything to resell and merely punishes the borrower, but we recognize it as having positive sum effects for the credit system. A program of revoking degrees would behave the same way. (Even if you have criticisms of the credit score as it exists today, most at least see the merit of “hey, other lenders, this person doesn’t repay loans, proceed with caution.)
      - mikeash 7y ago
        The point of credit scores isn’t to punish the borrower, it’s to allow future lenders to better gauge risk. No value is destroyed when you put a negative mark on someone’s credit report. Revoking degrees would be equivalent to burning down houses in foreclosure. Such destruction of value is obvious madness.
        nordsieck 7y ago
        > Revoking degrees would be equivalent to burning down houses in foreclosure. While I agree with your larger point, I think this particular bit is a little weak. A revoked degree can easily be un-revoked, while a burned down house needs to be re-built from scratch. This is why it is socially acceptable for schools to withhold transcripts for students who owe money to the school.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - anticensor 7y ago
        It would be problematic for rich people who do not need loans, and destroy the trust on schooling system. Diplomas need to be irrevocable except for serious procedural issues.
        SilasX 7y ago
        Yeah, good point, universities never revoke degrees over objectionable behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cosby#Rescinded_honorary_degrees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cosby#Rescinded_honorary_...
- WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
  * free market intensifies
TallGuyShort 7y ago
If you can't find gainful employment with your new degree, not much worth repossessing, is there?
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  We teach kids they can be whoever they want to be, then stick them with a massive bill and say 'ha ha only kidding you miserable debt slave.'
  - larrywright 7y ago
    The first half of that sentence is the problem, in my opinion. We treat all college degrees as having equal value and offer loans for massive sums of money, with no regard to their likely ability to pay it back. $150k to get a law degree? Ok, that's likely to work out. $150k to get a degree in Russian Literature? Or theatre? That's not a good investment. Of course there are people who have degrees like that and they end up in high paying jobs (often not in the field they studied), but they're the exception to the rule. We seem to have stopped explaining how supply and demand works. Companies have a demand for employees with certain skills. If you can supply those skills, they will pay you. The higher the demand for those skills, the more they pay (IT, medical, many trades). If you have a skill that nobody has a demand for (say, theatre, or russian literature), you're in trouble. Of course if you have a degree that isn't in demand, there's a way out. Find a way to take the skills you have and turn them into someone that companies want to pay money for. Turn your english degree into a career in copywriting, or your degree in theatre into a career in... something.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      But why should everything be subject to laws of supply and demand? That's just slavery with extra steps. Alice is rich and got to follow her passion (even though it maybe took a long time), Bob was born poor and so any passion on his part must be subordinated to his ability to be employed by Carol regardless of opportunity cost. Is this somehow Bob's fault for being born into the wrong circumstances? Obviously not. But if the aspirational messages that we provide to all people in society are only true for a privileged few, then the communication of same to a larger mass of people for whom it is not is a form of fraud perpetuated on those least able to detect it.
jldugger 7y ago
But the repo process for brain cells is a little too gruesome for bankers.

Education has yourself as return.

nordsieck 7y ago

> Education has yourself as return. That is not something a lender can repossess.

SilasX 7y ago
Not as they currently do it, no, but I imagine (at least with future loans), it could have the penalty that the university would not issue your transcript or vouch for your degree when the loan became delinquent enough. That would be similar in spirit repossession (except that the bank couldn't sell it). But of course, they wouldn't get to take back any of that valuable knowledge and human capital you acquired there /semi-s
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  Schools already do that with debts, but most student loans for accredited schools aren't issued by the school, who has been fully paid by the lender.
- djakjxnanjak 7y ago
  College degrees are mostly about signaling. Employers can already check your credit history, so this wouldn’t tell them much they don’t already know.
- mikeash 7y ago
  The whole point of repossession is that he bank can sell it to recover at least some of their loss. Without that, it’s just destructive punishment. You’d be making society poorer by restricting this person’s job prospects, with no gain anywhere to offset it.
  - SilasX 7y ago
    I don’t know how you get “the whole point” as being that. The credit scoring system likewise doesn’t give the lender anything to resell and merely punishes the borrower, but we recognize it as having positive sum effects for the credit system. A program of revoking degrees would behave the same way. (Even if you have criticisms of the credit score as it exists today, most at least see the merit of “hey, other lenders, this person doesn’t repay loans, proceed with caution.)
    - mikeash 7y ago
      The point of credit scores isn’t to punish the borrower, it’s to allow future lenders to better gauge risk. No value is destroyed when you put a negative mark on someone’s credit report. Revoking degrees would be equivalent to burning down houses in foreclosure. Such destruction of value is obvious madness.
      - nordsieck 7y ago
        > Revoking degrees would be equivalent to burning down houses in foreclosure. While I agree with your larger point, I think this particular bit is a little weak. A revoked degree can easily be un-revoked, while a burned down house needs to be re-built from scratch. This is why it is socially acceptable for schools to withhold transcripts for students who owe money to the school.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - anticensor 7y ago
      It would be problematic for rich people who do not need loans, and destroy the trust on schooling system. Diplomas need to be irrevocable except for serious procedural issues.
      - SilasX 7y ago
        Yeah, good point, universities never revoke degrees over objectionable behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cosby#Rescinded_honorary_degrees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Cosby#Rescinded_honorary_...
WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
* free market intensifies

TallGuyShort 7y ago

If you can't find gainful employment with your new degree, not much worth repossessing, is there?

anigbrowl 7y ago
We teach kids they can be whoever they want to be, then stick them with a massive bill and say 'ha ha only kidding you miserable debt slave.'
- larrywright 7y ago
  The first half of that sentence is the problem, in my opinion. We treat all college degrees as having equal value and offer loans for massive sums of money, with no regard to their likely ability to pay it back. $150k to get a law degree? Ok, that's likely to work out. $150k to get a degree in Russian Literature? Or theatre? That's not a good investment. Of course there are people who have degrees like that and they end up in high paying jobs (often not in the field they studied), but they're the exception to the rule. We seem to have stopped explaining how supply and demand works. Companies have a demand for employees with certain skills. If you can supply those skills, they will pay you. The higher the demand for those skills, the more they pay (IT, medical, many trades). If you have a skill that nobody has a demand for (say, theatre, or russian literature), you're in trouble. Of course if you have a degree that isn't in demand, there's a way out. Find a way to take the skills you have and turn them into someone that companies want to pay money for. Turn your english degree into a career in copywriting, or your degree in theatre into a career in... something.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    But why should everything be subject to laws of supply and demand? That's just slavery with extra steps. Alice is rich and got to follow her passion (even though it maybe took a long time), Bob was born poor and so any passion on his part must be subordinated to his ability to be employed by Carol regardless of opportunity cost. Is this somehow Bob's fault for being born into the wrong circumstances? Obviously not. But if the aspirational messages that we provide to all people in society are only true for a privileged few, then the communication of same to a larger mass of people for whom it is not is a form of fraud perpetuated on those least able to detect it.

jldugger 7y ago

But the repo process for brain cells is a little too gruesome for bankers.