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Because a few people got fancy degrees and discharged their loans. I'd totally support discharging your loans and having your degree placed into some sort of A

Because a few people got fancy degrees and discharged their loans. I'd totally support discharging your loans and having your degree placed into some sort of ADMINISTRATIVE HOLD so it has no value until the loans are being paid back. You can easily pick up the payments once you're fully employed.

Thorrez 7y ago
I don't understand how that would work. I can see 2 values in a degree: 1 the ability to put the degree on your resume, 2 the knowledge and enjoyment you got from the degree. I don't see how it's possible to remove 2. I guess you could remove 1 by making it illegal to put on your resume, but then how would you become "fully employed" when you can't put the degree on your resume?
- WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
  It prevents high power careers like lawyers and doctors from 'doing away with their loans' as removing those degrees means you can't practice while making lesser degrees dischargeable. It would also make lenders want to make your succeed (it is their money)
  - Thorrez 7y ago
    I still don't see how the person will later become "fully employed" when the person isn't allowed to practice.
- xfitm3 7y ago
  College educations don't really impart substantial knowledge. It's the ability to put it on your resume that counts.
  - Thorrez 7y ago
    I got substantial knowledge from my degree. But regardless of whether you got any knowledge from your degree, you could still get enjoyment from your degree. And even if you didn't get any knowledge or enjoyment from your degree, if you remove the ability to put it on your resume, how is someone supposed to become "fully employed"?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
sodafountan 7y ago
Your thoughts on the value of a degree are indicative of the massive disconnect we have in our society between an education and a credential. The reason student loans can't be discharged during bankruptcy is because the value of the degree can't be repossessed by a bank like a house or a car if you default. You attend college to learn and grow, not to pass an HR screening. I could very easily acquire a job as a developer simply by knowing the material and how to write code - how I choose to come by that knowledge is my own prerogative but if I take out a loan from a bank to acquire that knowledge then they have nothing to repossess. You don't attend college for a degree you attend it for the knowledge and experience you gain - a degree is worthless, it can't be resold if a bank were to "take posession" of it. And trust me if banks and financial institutions could create second-hand markets and derivatives for degrees they would, but that would obviously be pointless. I can't just buy and sell PhD's on e-trade.
- freeone3000 7y ago
  > You attend college to learn and grow, not to pass an HR screening. What? No. I attended college because it let me be hired nearly everywhere with much less hassle than having to "work my way up" - nearly everything I learned was useless or rapidly obsolete (if it wasn't obsolete as it was taught). >You don't attend college for a degree you attend it for the knowledge and experience you gain - a degree is worthless, it can't be resold if a bank were to "take posession" of it. Except to HR, which is frequently where it matters the most, in actual dollars It sure would be nice if a college education was about learning and growth and discovering oneself and all the hoopla they feed you during visits and orientation, but it's a structured credentialing system that involves professors for some reason, and it's effectively mandatory for making an above-median wage.
  - sodafountan 7y ago
    You just accurately described many of the problems in this world. For the record though I don't have a degree myself and I've never been denied for it during the HR screening process, I'm a developer and I use my existing work to market myself. I understand that in other fields this is either very hard to do or near impossible (Doctors, for example, could never do that). In an ideal world, if we could restructure society, we'd have corporations take on the burden of educating their workforce entirely - for instance perhaps out of high school if you were interested in being an accountant you'd intern or do a 2 year rigorous learning/onboarding process at company X where you'd agree to work for less or stay on for Y amount of years. I think a system like that would work a lot better for a lot of people and ultimately bring the cost of higher education down for the people who simply can't avoid it.
mikeash 7y ago
Sure, let’s block a valuable worker from contributing to society because they didn’t pay their loans. This is vindictive thinking with no gain to anyone.

Thorrez 7y ago

I don't understand how that would work. I can see 2 values in a degree: 1 the ability to put the degree on your resume, 2 the knowledge and enjoyment you got from the degree. I don't see how it's possible to remove 2. I guess you could remove 1 by making it illegal to put on your resume, but then how would you become "fully employed" when you can't put the degree on your resume?

WrtCdEvrydy 7y ago
It prevents high power careers like lawyers and doctors from 'doing away with their loans' as removing those degrees means you can't practice while making lesser degrees dischargeable. It would also make lenders want to make your succeed (it is their money)
- Thorrez 7y ago
  I still don't see how the person will later become "fully employed" when the person isn't allowed to practice.
xfitm3 7y ago
College educations don't really impart substantial knowledge. It's the ability to put it on your resume that counts.
- Thorrez 7y ago
  I got substantial knowledge from my degree. But regardless of whether you got any knowledge from your degree, you could still get enjoyment from your degree. And even if you didn't get any knowledge or enjoyment from your degree, if you remove the ability to put it on your resume, how is someone supposed to become "fully employed"?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

sodafountan 7y ago

Your thoughts on the value of a degree are indicative of the massive disconnect we have in our society between an education and a credential. The reason student loans can't be discharged during bankruptcy is because the value of the degree can't be repossessed by a bank like a house or a car if you default. You attend college to learn and grow, not to pass an HR screening. I could very easily acquire a job as a developer simply by knowing the material and how to write code - how I choose to come by that knowledge is my own prerogative but if I take out a loan from a bank to acquire that knowledge then they have nothing to repossess. You don't attend college for a degree you attend it for the knowledge and experience you gain - a degree is worthless, it can't be resold if a bank were to "take posession" of it. And trust me if banks and financial institutions could create second-hand markets and derivatives for degrees they would, but that would obviously be pointless. I can't just buy and sell PhD's on e-trade.

freeone3000 7y ago
> You attend college to learn and grow, not to pass an HR screening. What? No. I attended college because it let me be hired nearly everywhere with much less hassle than having to "work my way up" - nearly everything I learned was useless or rapidly obsolete (if it wasn't obsolete as it was taught). >You don't attend college for a degree you attend it for the knowledge and experience you gain - a degree is worthless, it can't be resold if a bank were to "take posession" of it. Except to HR, which is frequently where it matters the most, in actual dollars It sure would be nice if a college education was about learning and growth and discovering oneself and all the hoopla they feed you during visits and orientation, but it's a structured credentialing system that involves professors for some reason, and it's effectively mandatory for making an above-median wage.
- sodafountan 7y ago
  You just accurately described many of the problems in this world. For the record though I don't have a degree myself and I've never been denied for it during the HR screening process, I'm a developer and I use my existing work to market myself. I understand that in other fields this is either very hard to do or near impossible (Doctors, for example, could never do that). In an ideal world, if we could restructure society, we'd have corporations take on the burden of educating their workforce entirely - for instance perhaps out of high school if you were interested in being an accountant you'd intern or do a 2 year rigorous learning/onboarding process at company X where you'd agree to work for less or stay on for Y amount of years. I think a system like that would work a lot better for a lot of people and ultimately bring the cost of higher education down for the people who simply can't avoid it.

mikeash 7y ago

Sure, let’s block a valuable worker from contributing to society because they didn’t pay their loans. This is vindictive thinking with no gain to anyone.