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I thought that the claim that Tesla is the safest car has been thoroughly debunked long ago. It's safer than an average car on the road, but not than a car of t

by Fins 7y ago

I thought that the claim that Tesla is the safest car has been thoroughly debunked long ago. It's safer than an average car on the road, but not than a car of the same age and price. Not to mention that your average car does not try to actively kill you by driving into large, stationary objects. Besides, I have no qualms with claims about the drivetrain, Superchargers, and other things that might well make Tesla the best EV out there. It's the claims that Tesla compares with.. well, with anything, really, in build quality, that it has better interior or ergonomics , or that "Autopilot" is the best driver assistance system that really raise eyebrows. I can't comprehend what kind of thinking makes one say that a touchscreen interface in a moving vehicle could possibly be either more convenient or safer than dedicated buttons. And specifically in TM3, what could possibly make them put all output (mind you, in a car that you still have to drive yourself) off to the side?!

zaroth 7y ago
Passenger EVs by nature of their bigger forward crumple zones, should be safer than an ICE passenger vehicle. Tesla Model 3 is particularly safe when it comes to forward collision and rollover. They've also done as good a job as anyone with side-impact and things like partially overlapping front impact [1]. So it adds up to substantiating the "safest" claim in terms of protecting you during an accident. Obviously it's better to avoid an accident entirely. As of last year Tesla drivers had traveled more than 1 billion miles under AutoPilot. Miles driven by AutoPilot continue to be significantly safer than non-AutoPilot miles [2] but the miles are not directly comparable (e.g. highway vs non-highway). An increasing number of my non-highway miles are driven on AutoPilot now though, as the system continues to improve. Tesla recently (as in two weeks ago) introduced additional active safety measures for accident avoidance [3], and there is even a recent video of AutoPilot avoiding a bunny in the road [4]. As far as the screen, maybe it's personal taste. I can tell you I love the touch-screen and I love how it is located in the car. I particularly enjoy that there's no screen right in front of me behind the steering wheel. I commented upthread that the feeling of driving, particular at night, with nothing but the road directly in front of you is almost surreal. All the most common functions (blinker, wiper, volume, cruise speed, skip track, voice command) are hard-wired, so there's never a need to take your hand off the wheel. To make more fine-grained adjustments (which I find you practically never need to do) the touch screen is so responsive I can do as fast as with a button or dial. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI [2] - https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autopilot-crashes-up-human-error-down-in-q1-2019 https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autop... [3] - https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners [4] - https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadkill-video/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadk...
- Fins 7y ago
  Maybe it should be safer, but just because Tesla or a Tesla fan site says so does not mean that it is. Given Elon's rather strained relationship with truth it might even mean quite the opposite. Really, looking at the official testing spreadsheet you've linked in your previous comment, TM3 certainly does not look like a safest car on the road. Not terrible, but will pulverize your femurs just fine, and does not get scores significantly higher than much cheaper cars. Avoiding an accident is, indeed, better. But here Tesla's harping on their "Autopilot" does not come out as good either. There were links posted here from IIHS showing that Tesla on Autopilot does not fare particularly well. Of the 9 models with 0 highway deaths (and those are not some exotic cars of which there just are very few, some are your typical soccer mom minivans) none was a Tesla. [0] does not look very good either. I am also not aware of any other driver assistance system that actively tries to kill you in not particularly challenging circumstances. Now, I am not going to say that it is necessarily Tesla's technical fault that somne of their customers are... let's say not particularly astute and believe that "Autopilot" will actually autopilot them down the road, but at least their marketing claims are outright evil. If the screen works for you, great, but I am afraid it is the case where it only works for you until the unfortunate moment when you keep looking at it adjusting A/C while the car accelerates into the nearest fire truck. Sure, you can do wityh it, but no, it cannot possibly even equally safe (or convenient) to a system with a dedicated button that can be operated by touch without looking. Can you adjust temperature, airflow direction, seat temperature (oh, you can't even cool them, sorry /s ) without even having to look at anything? I can, and it's an 8 years old car (it also doesn't have uneven gaps or rattles, but let's ignore that for now). Sure, nice of them to have kept blinkers in the standard position (I wonder if they would have been even allowed on the road otherwise) but that's not exactly a glowing praise... [0] https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/52/4/4 https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/52/4/4

by Fins 7y ago

zaroth 7y ago

Passenger EVs by nature of their bigger forward crumple zones, should be safer than an ICE passenger vehicle. Tesla Model 3 is particularly safe when it comes to forward collision and rollover. They've also done as good a job as anyone with side-impact and things like partially overlapping front impact [1]. So it adds up to substantiating the "safest" claim in terms of protecting you during an accident. Obviously it's better to avoid an accident entirely. As of last year Tesla drivers had traveled more than 1 billion miles under AutoPilot. Miles driven by AutoPilot continue to be significantly safer than non-AutoPilot miles [2] but the miles are not directly comparable (e.g. highway vs non-highway). An increasing number of my non-highway miles are driven on AutoPilot now though, as the system continues to improve. Tesla recently (as in two weeks ago) introduced additional active safety measures for accident avoidance [3], and there is even a recent video of AutoPilot avoiding a bunny in the road [4]. As far as the screen, maybe it's personal taste. I can tell you I love the touch-screen and I love how it is located in the car. I particularly enjoy that there's no screen right in front of me behind the steering wheel. I commented upthread that the feeling of driving, particular at night, with nothing but the road directly in front of you is almost surreal. All the most common functions (blinker, wiper, volume, cruise speed, skip track, voice command) are hard-wired, so there's never a need to take your hand off the wheel. To make more fine-grained adjustments (which I find you practically never need to do) the touch screen is so responsive I can do as fast as with a button or dial. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI [2] - https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autopilot-crashes-up-human-error-down-in-q1-2019 https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autop... [3] - https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners [4] - https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadkill-video/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadk...

Fins 7y ago
Maybe it should be safer, but just because Tesla or a Tesla fan site says so does not mean that it is. Given Elon's rather strained relationship with truth it might even mean quite the opposite. Really, looking at the official testing spreadsheet you've linked in your previous comment, TM3 certainly does not look like a safest car on the road. Not terrible, but will pulverize your femurs just fine, and does not get scores significantly higher than much cheaper cars. Avoiding an accident is, indeed, better. But here Tesla's harping on their "Autopilot" does not come out as good either. There were links posted here from IIHS showing that Tesla on Autopilot does not fare particularly well. Of the 9 models with 0 highway deaths (and those are not some exotic cars of which there just are very few, some are your typical soccer mom minivans) none was a Tesla. [0] does not look very good either. I am also not aware of any other driver assistance system that actively tries to kill you in not particularly challenging circumstances. Now, I am not going to say that it is necessarily Tesla's technical fault that somne of their customers are... let's say not particularly astute and believe that "Autopilot" will actually autopilot them down the road, but at least their marketing claims are outright evil. If the screen works for you, great, but I am afraid it is the case where it only works for you until the unfortunate moment when you keep looking at it adjusting A/C while the car accelerates into the nearest fire truck. Sure, you can do wityh it, but no, it cannot possibly even equally safe (or convenient) to a system with a dedicated button that can be operated by touch without looking. Can you adjust temperature, airflow direction, seat temperature (oh, you can't even cool them, sorry /s ) without even having to look at anything? I can, and it's an 8 years old car (it also doesn't have uneven gaps or rattles, but let's ignore that for now). Sure, nice of them to have kept blinkers in the standard position (I wonder if they would have been even allowed on the road otherwise) but that's not exactly a glowing praise... [0] https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/52/4/4 https://www.iihs.org/iihs/sr/statusreport/article/52/4/4