5 ms·

Nothing wrong with that, but if I ask you why did you become a developer and you list that as a main reason, then I will immediately dismiss you as not being se

Nothing wrong with that, but if I ask you why did you become a developer and you list that as a main reason, then I will immediately dismiss you as not being serious.

zaphar 7y ago
Why? Nothing about that reason has any bearing on whether you will be any good at it. Passion provides motivation to gain skill but it's not the only thing that can provide motivation. It's not even the only reliable motivator. Having a better career or pay can also be pretty reliable motivator.
- jen20 7y ago
  Dismissing someone as “not serious” because of their reasons for following a particular career path says a lot more about the person doing the dismissing than those being dismissed. By the parent’s criteria, I am “not serious”. My record on OSS and early work at companies which were acquired or have outsized valuations suggests the parent is 100% wrong, however.
  - mothsonasloth 7y ago
    Fair enough but what you have said shows to me that you are most likely a 10x'er, therefore I would say you're in a different league altogether. Tell me, when you typed your first line of "Hello world" in C, Python etc. Was your motivation to have an easy life?
    - jen20 7y ago
      No - I was 5 or so when I started programming - however when I chose a degree leading to a math-based degree vs studying music (which I would have done otherwise), job prospects for an easy life were very much top of mind.
      - mothsonasloth 7y ago
        There we go, it was curiosity then. I was a late bloomer and didn't program till I was 12 and that was modding Command and Conquer. If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. Perhaps I should have articulated it better above. What I meant is that many of these bootcampers don't have that curiosity or drive to have touched code before their course. Even after getting a job, I've asked them about coding outside of work etc. they're not interested.
        jen20 7y ago
        > If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. This part I fully agree with. Do not equate "boot camp" and "would rather sit at a computer than mine coal" for a lack of intellectual curiousity though. I have personally met grads _from the boot camp in question in this article_ who clearly do have it - while spending their work days writing Ruby for web apps, they were spending evenings learning C, assembler and the operating system fundamentals that their particular route into the industry meant they missed out on.
        povertyworld 7y ago
        You think there aren't tons of people who do CS degrees that lack curiosity? I've helped students with their CS homework who, when I asked why they were majoring in CS when they obviously did not like it, literally said their parents picked their major. So, I'm sorry, when people on here say that getting a bachelors in CS is some indicator of "natural curiosity" aka "geekiness" I would say it is the complete opposite. I should add I don't have a CS degree, yet I'm doing the homework for the "dedicated" "curious" "high aptitude" etc. CS grads you'll be hiring later. Ha.
    - chickenfries 7y ago
      You can’t imagine that there are people who are smart enough to code, but wouldn’t otherwise be doing so if the salaries weren’t so good? The pay is really good right now. Lots of people I know who did boot camps were doing things like research in other STEM fields. They are definitely coding now because coding offers them a more comfortable life, not because writing enterprise software is more rewarding than say, researching climate change.
      - pmiller2 7y ago
        I definitely would be doing it if salaries were substantially lower. In fact, I’ve told people before that the main reason I’m a developer now is because it’s the only thing I know how to do that I know I can pay my student loans with.
        pmiller2 7y ago
        /s/would/would not/
    - mikeash 7y ago
      Lots of people don’t have the opportunity to get into programming for fun or because they think it’s interesting. A person could reasonably go into programming when choosing a major in college never having written a line of code, and end up doing great. Our perceptions of programmers are shaped by the PC revolution of the 1980s. A lot of people got exposed to programming because there was a PC in the house. Kids and teens so exposed tended to be the ones who went into programming as a career, just because they had a head start and because they were more familiar with it. The result is that many of the best programmers in the profession in the 90s and 00s were the ones who started as kids. But many of the mediocre and bad ones were too! Passion and early starts are overrated. As long as a person is smart in the right way and reasonably enjoys the stuff, they can be a great programmer. (And I say this as someone who started programming at the age of 6 and did it for free for many years.)
caprese 7y ago
I can pretend for an interview I’ve blended in pretty well all through upper management
- mcguire 7y ago
  Two thumbs up! If you can move fast and talk loud, no one need notice you have never produced a deliverable.
  - caprese 7y ago
    well I'm actually pretty good at my job and work with integrity but arbitrary screening questions for interviews and silly coding exercises have no bearing on that
yawaramin 7y ago
Why are you asking people why they became a developer? That has nothing to do with their ability to do the job. You're in a professional environment, so ask the relevant question: do they have a learning mindset? That's really the only thing that matters.

Nothing wrong with that, but if I ask you why did you become a developer and you list that as a main reason, then I will immediately dismiss you as not being serious.

zaphar 7y ago

Why? Nothing about that reason has any bearing on whether you will be any good at it. Passion provides motivation to gain skill but it's not the only thing that can provide motivation. It's not even the only reliable motivator. Having a better career or pay can also be pretty reliable motivator.

jen20 7y ago
Dismissing someone as “not serious” because of their reasons for following a particular career path says a lot more about the person doing the dismissing than those being dismissed. By the parent’s criteria, I am “not serious”. My record on OSS and early work at companies which were acquired or have outsized valuations suggests the parent is 100% wrong, however.
- mothsonasloth 7y ago
  Fair enough but what you have said shows to me that you are most likely a 10x'er, therefore I would say you're in a different league altogether. Tell me, when you typed your first line of "Hello world" in C, Python etc. Was your motivation to have an easy life?
  - jen20 7y ago
    No - I was 5 or so when I started programming - however when I chose a degree leading to a math-based degree vs studying music (which I would have done otherwise), job prospects for an easy life were very much top of mind.
    - mothsonasloth 7y ago
      There we go, it was curiosity then. I was a late bloomer and didn't program till I was 12 and that was modding Command and Conquer. If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. Perhaps I should have articulated it better above. What I meant is that many of these bootcampers don't have that curiosity or drive to have touched code before their course. Even after getting a job, I've asked them about coding outside of work etc. they're not interested.
      - jen20 7y ago
        > If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. This part I fully agree with. Do not equate "boot camp" and "would rather sit at a computer than mine coal" for a lack of intellectual curiousity though. I have personally met grads _from the boot camp in question in this article_ who clearly do have it - while spending their work days writing Ruby for web apps, they were spending evenings learning C, assembler and the operating system fundamentals that their particular route into the industry meant they missed out on.
      - povertyworld 7y ago
        You think there aren't tons of people who do CS degrees that lack curiosity? I've helped students with their CS homework who, when I asked why they were majoring in CS when they obviously did not like it, literally said their parents picked their major. So, I'm sorry, when people on here say that getting a bachelors in CS is some indicator of "natural curiosity" aka "geekiness" I would say it is the complete opposite. I should add I don't have a CS degree, yet I'm doing the homework for the "dedicated" "curious" "high aptitude" etc. CS grads you'll be hiring later. Ha.
  - chickenfries 7y ago
    You can’t imagine that there are people who are smart enough to code, but wouldn’t otherwise be doing so if the salaries weren’t so good? The pay is really good right now. Lots of people I know who did boot camps were doing things like research in other STEM fields. They are definitely coding now because coding offers them a more comfortable life, not because writing enterprise software is more rewarding than say, researching climate change.
    - pmiller2 7y ago
      I definitely would be doing it if salaries were substantially lower. In fact, I’ve told people before that the main reason I’m a developer now is because it’s the only thing I know how to do that I know I can pay my student loans with.
      - pmiller2 7y ago
        /s/would/would not/
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Lots of people don’t have the opportunity to get into programming for fun or because they think it’s interesting. A person could reasonably go into programming when choosing a major in college never having written a line of code, and end up doing great. Our perceptions of programmers are shaped by the PC revolution of the 1980s. A lot of people got exposed to programming because there was a PC in the house. Kids and teens so exposed tended to be the ones who went into programming as a career, just because they had a head start and because they were more familiar with it. The result is that many of the best programmers in the profession in the 90s and 00s were the ones who started as kids. But many of the mediocre and bad ones were too! Passion and early starts are overrated. As long as a person is smart in the right way and reasonably enjoys the stuff, they can be a great programmer. (And I say this as someone who started programming at the age of 6 and did it for free for many years.)

caprese 7y ago

I can pretend for an interview I’ve blended in pretty well all through upper management

mcguire 7y ago
Two thumbs up! If you can move fast and talk loud, no one need notice you have never produced a deliverable.
- caprese 7y ago
  well I'm actually pretty good at my job and work with integrity but arbitrary screening questions for interviews and silly coding exercises have no bearing on that

yawaramin 7y ago

Why are you asking people why they became a developer? That has nothing to do with their ability to do the job. You're in a professional environment, so ask the relevant question: do they have a learning mindset? That's really the only thing that matters.