5 ms·

> developers have an easy life, getting into work whenever they choose Why exactly is that the wrong reason?

by jen20 8y ago

sudosteph 8y ago
I know people with 4 year CS degrees from reputable schools who picked tech jobs for the same reason. I think wanting a job that allows you the means and time to enjoy other parts of life is perfectly valid. Being incompetent at said job is where the problems come from.
mothsonasloth 8y ago
Nothing wrong with that, but if I ask you why did you become a developer and you list that as a main reason, then I will immediately dismiss you as not being serious.
- zaphar 8y ago
  Why? Nothing about that reason has any bearing on whether you will be any good at it. Passion provides motivation to gain skill but it's not the only thing that can provide motivation. It's not even the only reliable motivator. Having a better career or pay can also be pretty reliable motivator.
  - jen20 8y ago
    Dismissing someone as “not serious” because of their reasons for following a particular career path says a lot more about the person doing the dismissing than those being dismissed. By the parent’s criteria, I am “not serious”. My record on OSS and early work at companies which were acquired or have outsized valuations suggests the parent is 100% wrong, however.
    - mothsonasloth 8y ago
      Fair enough but what you have said shows to me that you are most likely a 10x'er, therefore I would say you're in a different league altogether. Tell me, when you typed your first line of "Hello world" in C, Python etc. Was your motivation to have an easy life?
      - jen20 8y ago
        No - I was 5 or so when I started programming - however when I chose a degree leading to a math-based degree vs studying music (which I would have done otherwise), job prospects for an easy life were very much top of mind.
        mothsonasloth 8y ago
        There we go, it was curiosity then. I was a late bloomer and didn't program till I was 12 and that was modding Command and Conquer. If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. Perhaps I should have articulated it better above. What I meant is that many of these bootcampers don't have that curiosity or drive to have touched code before their course. Even after getting a job, I've asked them about coding outside of work etc. they're not interested.
        jen20 8y ago
        > If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. This part I fully agree with. Do not equate "boot camp" and "would rather sit at a computer than mine coal" for a lack of intellectual curiousity though. I have personally met grads _from the boot camp in question in this article_ who clearly do have it - while spending their work days writing Ruby for web apps, they were spending evenings learning C, assembler and the operating system fundamentals that their particular route into the industry meant they missed out on.
        povertyworld 8y ago
        You think there aren't tons of people who do CS degrees that lack curiosity? I've helped students with their CS homework who, when I asked why they were majoring in CS when they obviously did not like it, literally said their parents picked their major. So, I'm sorry, when people on here say that getting a bachelors in CS is some indicator of "natural curiosity" aka "geekiness" I would say it is the complete opposite. I should add I don't have a CS degree, yet I'm doing the homework for the "dedicated" "curious" "high aptitude" etc. CS grads you'll be hiring later. Ha.
- caprese 8y ago
  I can pretend for an interview I’ve blended in pretty well all through upper management
  - mcguire 8y ago
    Two thumbs up! If you can move fast and talk loud, no one need notice you have never produced a deliverable.
    - caprese 8y ago
      well I'm actually pretty good at my job and work with integrity but arbitrary screening questions for interviews and silly coding exercises have no bearing on that
- yawaramin 8y ago
  Why are you asking people why they became a developer? That has nothing to do with their ability to do the job. You're in a professional environment, so ask the relevant question: do they have a learning mindset? That's really the only thing that matters.
mcguire 8y ago
It often comes with wanting to go to lunch whenever and leaving early to make up for it all. With the result that work never gets done. Don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest fan of getting in at 10:00 or 11:00, but I also try very hard to get things done. If you come out of your boot camp without understanding that you still have a shit-ton to learn and you aren't willing to put in the effort to learn it and do the actual work (which isn't easy), and, yes, put in the time required, then you are a liability.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
Well it's wrong if people have that expectation and it's not the reality. It's also problematic in a world wherein people have to work together, which is why most jobs don't allow one to 'work when one chooses' although that is obviously the case in some scenarios.

> developers have an easy life, getting into work whenever they choose Why exactly is that the wrong reason?

by jen20 8y ago

> developers have an easy life, getting into work whenever they choose Why exactly is that the wrong reason?

I know people with 4 year CS degrees from reputable schools who picked tech jobs for the same reason. I think wanting a job that allows you the means and time to enjoy other parts of life is perfectly valid. Being incompetent at said job is where the problems come from.

mothsonasloth 8y ago

Nothing wrong with that, but if I ask you why did you become a developer and you list that as a main reason, then I will immediately dismiss you as not being serious.

zaphar 8y ago
Why? Nothing about that reason has any bearing on whether you will be any good at it. Passion provides motivation to gain skill but it's not the only thing that can provide motivation. It's not even the only reliable motivator. Having a better career or pay can also be pretty reliable motivator.
- jen20 8y ago
  Dismissing someone as “not serious” because of their reasons for following a particular career path says a lot more about the person doing the dismissing than those being dismissed. By the parent’s criteria, I am “not serious”. My record on OSS and early work at companies which were acquired or have outsized valuations suggests the parent is 100% wrong, however.
  - mothsonasloth 8y ago
    Fair enough but what you have said shows to me that you are most likely a 10x'er, therefore I would say you're in a different league altogether. Tell me, when you typed your first line of "Hello world" in C, Python etc. Was your motivation to have an easy life?
    - jen20 8y ago
      No - I was 5 or so when I started programming - however when I chose a degree leading to a math-based degree vs studying music (which I would have done otherwise), job prospects for an easy life were very much top of mind.
      - mothsonasloth 8y ago
        There we go, it was curiosity then. I was a late bloomer and didn't program till I was 12 and that was modding Command and Conquer. If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. Perhaps I should have articulated it better above. What I meant is that many of these bootcampers don't have that curiosity or drive to have touched code before their course. Even after getting a job, I've asked them about coding outside of work etc. they're not interested.
        jen20 8y ago
        > If you don't have intellectual curiosity, then I think your career prospects in software engineering will be limited. This part I fully agree with. Do not equate "boot camp" and "would rather sit at a computer than mine coal" for a lack of intellectual curiousity though. I have personally met grads _from the boot camp in question in this article_ who clearly do have it - while spending their work days writing Ruby for web apps, they were spending evenings learning C, assembler and the operating system fundamentals that their particular route into the industry meant they missed out on.
        povertyworld 8y ago
        You think there aren't tons of people who do CS degrees that lack curiosity? I've helped students with their CS homework who, when I asked why they were majoring in CS when they obviously did not like it, literally said their parents picked their major. So, I'm sorry, when people on here say that getting a bachelors in CS is some indicator of "natural curiosity" aka "geekiness" I would say it is the complete opposite. I should add I don't have a CS degree, yet I'm doing the homework for the "dedicated" "curious" "high aptitude" etc. CS grads you'll be hiring later. Ha.
caprese 8y ago
I can pretend for an interview I’ve blended in pretty well all through upper management
- mcguire 8y ago
  Two thumbs up! If you can move fast and talk loud, no one need notice you have never produced a deliverable.
  - caprese 8y ago
    well I'm actually pretty good at my job and work with integrity but arbitrary screening questions for interviews and silly coding exercises have no bearing on that
yawaramin 8y ago
Why are you asking people why they became a developer? That has nothing to do with their ability to do the job. You're in a professional environment, so ask the relevant question: do they have a learning mindset? That's really the only thing that matters.

mcguire 8y ago

It often comes with wanting to go to lunch whenever and leaving early to make up for it all. With the result that work never gets done. Don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest fan of getting in at 10:00 or 11:00, but I also try very hard to get things done. If you come out of your boot camp without understanding that you still have a shit-ton to learn and you aren't willing to put in the effort to learn it and do the actual work (which isn't easy), and, yes, put in the time required, then you are a liability.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

Well it's wrong if people have that expectation and it's not the reality. It's also problematic in a world wherein people have to work together, which is why most jobs don't allow one to 'work when one chooses' although that is obviously the case in some scenarios.