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HN is full of blockchain haters, but the only thing you need to know as a technologist is this: Cryptocurrency is programmable money. Is it that hard to under

HN is full of blockchain haters, but the only thing you need to know as a technologist is this: Cryptocurrency is programmable money. Is it that hard to understand why this is special? Of course there are all the other unique features like independence from the state / banks and smart contracts, and whether you think those are good or bad those are certainly unique features. But the number one thing is that Bitcoin is a native internet currency, and that’s an incredible innovation.

Scarblac 8y ago
Nobody really argues that Bitcoin isn't a neat invention, a nice solution to a mathematical puzzle. But it has far too many disadvantages compared to existing electronic payments to be practical.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Empact 8y ago
  I encourage anyone with this perspective to read Clayton Christensen’s “The Innovator’s Dilemma”. The book examines cases where the world is moved by disruptive technology - one property is that they are at first derided and dismissed as too limited / impractical / toys, before eclipsing the capabilities of the legacy technology, e.g. the very limited initial hydraulic construction equipment which came to lose its limitations and replace cable-driven alternatives in the 20th century.
  - intertextuality 8y ago
    We are allowed to acknowledge disadvantages and advantages of Bitcoin. Bitcoin isn't the future, but it sure is the progenitor of what will be used in the future.
    - vinniejames 8y ago
      The future is the largest, most accepted, universal payment system. To say that Bitcoin won't/can't evolve into this is very nearsighted
      - intertextuality 8y ago
        It won't. The concepts of bitcoin will be iterated on and polished into something that's actually useful. Bitcoin will not be the future as I said, but an improvement on it will. Something that's actually useful.
  - audunw 8y ago
    I’ve read the book. Just because something is ridiculed, doesn’t mean that it’ll be a success eventually. Sometimes it’s actually just a bad solution. It was pretty clear that the innovations in that book provided some value. I don’t remember it being a thing that most of them were ridiculed, it’s just that the established alternative represented a much higher revenue stream for the established companies that they didn’t see a point investing time and resources in the alternatives. The core problem is that the only real value blockchains provide is systems that can be implemented without a root of trust. So by definition it only provides significant value in failed states. But the real solution here is to build functioning states with trustworthy courts that can be the final arbiter in the case of disputes L
    - Empact 8y ago
      On your first point, agreed, and I don’t defend all blockchain projects, or even any particular one, only call to mind that these systems are prone to surprise us with their progress. If you see no problem in government’s management of currency, and you see no failure of trust in the banks and institutions that preside over it, propped up by regular bailouts, it’s no surprise then that you see no value in Bitcoin. But mind that cable-drawn construction equipment went out not because it was limited in the good times, but because it had a rare and catastrophic failure mode, of collapsing when the cable would break. Fiat is analogous - when it fails, it brings about devolution of society and desperation of its people, ala Venezuela. I’m happy Bitcoin exists, if for no other reason than to protect against that. If you doubt that a transformational aspect will make the limited Bitcoin into something that can serve as a global currency, take a look at the Lightning Network - it’s live and providing scalable, instantaneous and negligible fee transactions now. https://youtu.be/8zVzw912wPo https://youtu.be/8zVzw912wPo
skrebbel 8y ago
> Cryptocurrency is programmable money. That's such a vague expression that it's almost meaningless. I could imagine "programmable money" to mean all kinds of stuff, much of which Bitcoin isn't.
- seibelj 8y ago
  The asset itself is represented purely in code. Fintech companies like Stripe are building value-added features on top of the same banking system that everyone uses, essentially integrations on top of integrations. A digital asset like Bitcoin is a completely different thing and requires no licenses, permissions, or anything whatsoever to write software that manipulates it.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Requires is doing a lot of work in that last sentence. There's all sorts of situations where anyone can do a thing, but the government has stepped in and said that only licensed individuals can do it legally. What's to keep the same thing from happening to bitcoin?
  - harryh 8y ago
    > The asset itself is represented purely in code. You have a checking account at a bank right? What do you think is representing your bank balance? I'll give you a hint: there's no drawer anywhere with your name on it and $X,XXX.XX inside it.
    - rpz 8y ago
      And banks, payment processors and other fintech companies hire tens of thousands of employees each to maintain business as usual. Considering that bitcoin itself is a ledger and payment processor it makes me wonder if it could be an Avenue to free up human capital in the future for bigger and better things.
      - notahacker 8y ago
rapsey 8y ago
>But the number one thing is that Bitcoin is a native internet currency Yes but we live in the real world and we are real people. I dont like bugs, hacks or clerical mistakes wiping me out.
tomxor 8y ago
> Cryptocurrency is programmable money. Is it that hard to understand why this is special? [...] the number one thing is that Bitcoin is a native internet currency, and that’s an incredible innovation. The hate, for me at least, comes directly from that expectation (being a native internet currency), and from the fact that bitcoin completely fails at it - instead it's become an unregulated stock exchange / gambling / get rich quick scheme.
wslh 8y ago
First, programmable money is not equal to blockchain. What Bitcoin innovation added is being completely open (permissionless) and trustless (under certain assumptions) all this and more but cons like being extremely slow.
sgionionionio 8y ago
The only thing you need to know about Bitcoin is that it uses twice as much power as Ireland and maxes out at four transactions per second. Any benefits are purely theoretical. It is literally unusable at scale.
bartimus 8y ago
There's two aspects to blockchain: 1) How the technology can be applied in useful innovative ways to improve people's lives. 2) How the technology can be used as a speculative commodity for people seeking to make easy money. I think the hatred here is primarily towards the latter aspect.
vinniejames 8y ago
HN is full of non-technical users who jump on the "blockchain not Bitcoin" bandwagon
harryh 8y ago
Regular money is programmable money. Everything from automated trading of stocks to automatic bill pay from your checking account is programming money.
kpU8efre7r 8y ago
I'm not a blockchain hater- I'm a Bitcoin hater. There is a difference.

Scarblac 8y ago

Nobody really argues that Bitcoin isn't a neat invention, a nice solution to a mathematical puzzle. But it has far too many disadvantages compared to existing electronic payments to be practical.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Empact 8y ago
I encourage anyone with this perspective to read Clayton Christensen’s “The Innovator’s Dilemma”. The book examines cases where the world is moved by disruptive technology - one property is that they are at first derided and dismissed as too limited / impractical / toys, before eclipsing the capabilities of the legacy technology, e.g. the very limited initial hydraulic construction equipment which came to lose its limitations and replace cable-driven alternatives in the 20th century.
- intertextuality 8y ago
  We are allowed to acknowledge disadvantages and advantages of Bitcoin. Bitcoin isn't the future, but it sure is the progenitor of what will be used in the future.
  - vinniejames 8y ago
    The future is the largest, most accepted, universal payment system. To say that Bitcoin won't/can't evolve into this is very nearsighted
    - intertextuality 8y ago
      It won't. The concepts of bitcoin will be iterated on and polished into something that's actually useful. Bitcoin will not be the future as I said, but an improvement on it will. Something that's actually useful.
- audunw 8y ago
  I’ve read the book. Just because something is ridiculed, doesn’t mean that it’ll be a success eventually. Sometimes it’s actually just a bad solution. It was pretty clear that the innovations in that book provided some value. I don’t remember it being a thing that most of them were ridiculed, it’s just that the established alternative represented a much higher revenue stream for the established companies that they didn’t see a point investing time and resources in the alternatives. The core problem is that the only real value blockchains provide is systems that can be implemented without a root of trust. So by definition it only provides significant value in failed states. But the real solution here is to build functioning states with trustworthy courts that can be the final arbiter in the case of disputes L
  - Empact 8y ago
    On your first point, agreed, and I don’t defend all blockchain projects, or even any particular one, only call to mind that these systems are prone to surprise us with their progress. If you see no problem in government’s management of currency, and you see no failure of trust in the banks and institutions that preside over it, propped up by regular bailouts, it’s no surprise then that you see no value in Bitcoin. But mind that cable-drawn construction equipment went out not because it was limited in the good times, but because it had a rare and catastrophic failure mode, of collapsing when the cable would break. Fiat is analogous - when it fails, it brings about devolution of society and desperation of its people, ala Venezuela. I’m happy Bitcoin exists, if for no other reason than to protect against that. If you doubt that a transformational aspect will make the limited Bitcoin into something that can serve as a global currency, take a look at the Lightning Network - it’s live and providing scalable, instantaneous and negligible fee transactions now. https://youtu.be/8zVzw912wPo https://youtu.be/8zVzw912wPo

skrebbel 8y ago

> Cryptocurrency is programmable money. That's such a vague expression that it's almost meaningless. I could imagine "programmable money" to mean all kinds of stuff, much of which Bitcoin isn't.

seibelj 8y ago
The asset itself is represented purely in code. Fintech companies like Stripe are building value-added features on top of the same banking system that everyone uses, essentially integrations on top of integrations. A digital asset like Bitcoin is a completely different thing and requires no licenses, permissions, or anything whatsoever to write software that manipulates it.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Requires is doing a lot of work in that last sentence. There's all sorts of situations where anyone can do a thing, but the government has stepped in and said that only licensed individuals can do it legally. What's to keep the same thing from happening to bitcoin?
- harryh 8y ago
  > The asset itself is represented purely in code. You have a checking account at a bank right? What do you think is representing your bank balance? I'll give you a hint: there's no drawer anywhere with your name on it and $X,XXX.XX inside it.
  - rpz 8y ago
    And banks, payment processors and other fintech companies hire tens of thousands of employees each to maintain business as usual. Considering that bitcoin itself is a ledger and payment processor it makes me wonder if it could be an Avenue to free up human capital in the future for bigger and better things.
    - notahacker 8y ago

rapsey 8y ago

>But the number one thing is that Bitcoin is a native internet currency Yes but we live in the real world and we are real people. I dont like bugs, hacks or clerical mistakes wiping me out.

tomxor 8y ago

> Cryptocurrency is programmable money. Is it that hard to understand why this is special? [...] the number one thing is that Bitcoin is a native internet currency, and that’s an incredible innovation. The hate, for me at least, comes directly from that expectation (being a native internet currency), and from the fact that bitcoin completely fails at it - instead it's become an unregulated stock exchange / gambling / get rich quick scheme.

wslh 8y ago

First, programmable money is not equal to blockchain. What Bitcoin innovation added is being completely open (permissionless) and trustless (under certain assumptions) all this and more but cons like being extremely slow.

sgionionionio 8y ago

The only thing you need to know about Bitcoin is that it uses twice as much power as Ireland and maxes out at four transactions per second. Any benefits are purely theoretical. It is literally unusable at scale.

bartimus 8y ago

There's two aspects to blockchain: 1) How the technology can be applied in useful innovative ways to improve people's lives. 2) How the technology can be used as a speculative commodity for people seeking to make easy money. I think the hatred here is primarily towards the latter aspect.

vinniejames 8y ago

HN is full of non-technical users who jump on the "blockchain not Bitcoin" bandwagon

harryh 8y ago

Regular money is programmable money. Everything from automated trading of stocks to automatic bill pay from your checking account is programming money.

kpU8efre7r 8y ago

I'm not a blockchain hater- I'm a Bitcoin hater. There is a difference.