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I imagine its easy to see Bitcoin as useless if you live in the United States. However, given the inflation South Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and numerous countrie

I imagine its easy to see Bitcoin as useless if you live in the United States. However, given the inflation South Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and numerous countries in Africa, I find Bitcoin has a real use. I'm sure many of those citizens do not want to be dependent on a foreign countries central bank for a steady currency.

arbuge 7y ago
> However, given the inflation South Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and numerous countries in Africa, I find Bitcoin has a real use. South Korea doesn't belong in this list at all. > I'm sure many of those citizens do not want to be dependent on a foreign countries central bank for a steady currency. What makes you so sure about this? Have you surveyed any of them? Given the amount of US dollars in circulation overseas, the evidence would seem to indicate that US currency is actually viewed as a highly desirable alternative to many domestic ones.
- Lucadg 7y ago
  It is but access to hard currency is generally restricted in those countries as their overinflated currencies work only in an artificial vacuum.
  - numbsafari 7y ago
    Is there evidence of widespread use of crypto amongst non-elites? I see crypto as more of a competitor for jewelry and other fine assets traditionally used to expatriate familial and illicit wealth from collapsing regimes, than as a mechanism adopted by every day citizens. For example, how exactly are Venezuelans supposed to participate in crypto when their internet and electrical grids are so unstable?
    - stevenwoo 7y ago
      There were several articles over the past years citing individuals in South Korea seeing bitcoin as an opportunity for a middle class life and in Eastern Europe with the same end goals. some recent updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/10/business/south-korea-bitcoin-cryptocurrencies.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/10/business/south-korea-bitc... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/business/georgia-bitcoin-blockchain-bitfury.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/business/georgia-bitcoin-...
    - Lucadg 7y ago
      Illicit wealth in corrupt regimes may be a case of justice over law
  - empath75 7y ago
    The people in these countries by and large have no money to buy bitcoin with. The people in those countries that do have money are mostly corrupt, and they’re the ones that are using bitcoin.
mrep 7y ago
South Korea does not have a high inflation rate. They are averaging like 1.5% [0]. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-economy-inflation/south-korea-inflation-slows-to-near-three-year-low-bolsters-rate-cut-expectations-idUSKCN1RD3G3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-economy-inflat...
- olalonde 7y ago
  They do however have pretty strict capital controls making it difficult to transfer money out of the country (which is why Bitcoin has historically traded at a premium in South Korea).
  - intertextuality 7y ago
    Note that lawmakers were increasingly been targeting bitcoin in S.Korea. Foreigners (any foreigners, even ones with Korean visas and/or who are Korean but were born abroad) and minors can't sign up to exchanges anymore, for example.
wslh 7y ago
There are other things people in developed countries like US don't see. For example in Argentina (beyond the inflation issues) when you receive payments from foreign customers banks use an unfair USD/ARS rate while doing it via other services using Bitcoin you receive a fair exchange. All this in a legal/regulated way.
- conanbatt 7y ago
  This is not true anymore. The number one usage of BTC in argentina is tax evasion.
  - wslh 7y ago
    This is true today and has nothing to do with tax evasion. Tax evasion in Argentina is part of the "culture" and BTC is just another method. The BTC usage in Argentina is very niche.
buzzdenver 7y ago
Bitcoin is really far from stable though. It can easily become worthless just like any other currency that gets inflated away.
intertextuality 7y ago
South Korea does not belong in that list at all. The inflation rate is also only 1.4% to 1.5%.
quickben 7y ago
Having lived through a hyperinflation, I would not have touched Bitcoin with a ten foot pole. You want a rock stable foreign currency when the times are hard, not something that can push you even lower due to loss of even the minimal resources that you have.
vbezhenar 7y ago
I live in Kazakhstan with crazy inflation and I just store my savings in US dollars. Works fine for me.
mikeash 7y ago
Let’s say that I live in Venezuela, getting paid in Bolivars that depreciate so rapidly that I immediately go to the store to buy as much as possible before prices inflate out of reach. How do I use Bitcoin to improve my life? I just don’t see how it helps.
- ricardobeat 7y ago
  You sell small amounts at the daily BTC x [venezuela currency] rate? It allows your money to retain its value.
  - mikeash 7y ago
    Is it practical to regularly buy small amounts, given the high transaction costs? And who is selling Bitcoin for Bolivars?
  - inlined 7y ago
    Last I heard (on planet money), the median wage in Venezuela was enough to buy just less than two eggs per day. How much can they spare for investment? https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=642266470 https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...
    - ricardobeat 7y ago
      Not for investment, but for protecting the value from one day to the next, since inflation is 25000%/year. (I’m just hypothesizing here, would love to hear from someone who knows what is going on)
    - sodafountan 7y ago
      What they need is a stable electric grid and local miners selling to local exchanges - that way they can transact directly in Bolivar or barter if the currency ends up becoming completely worthless. I'm not necessarily saying any of that is practical, but a stable electric grid and internet access is key - perhaps renewable energy and access to the blockstream satellite would be the solution
astura 7y ago
I don't think storing your money in a form that requires electricity to use is a good idea if you live in a country that experiences blackouts that last days.
baby 7y ago
nice FUD. South Korea has no problems + Bitcoin is not a steady currency.

arbuge 7y ago

> However, given the inflation South Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and numerous countries in Africa, I find Bitcoin has a real use. South Korea doesn't belong in this list at all. > I'm sure many of those citizens do not want to be dependent on a foreign countries central bank for a steady currency. What makes you so sure about this? Have you surveyed any of them? Given the amount of US dollars in circulation overseas, the evidence would seem to indicate that US currency is actually viewed as a highly desirable alternative to many domestic ones.

Lucadg 7y ago
It is but access to hard currency is generally restricted in those countries as their overinflated currencies work only in an artificial vacuum.
- numbsafari 7y ago
  Is there evidence of widespread use of crypto amongst non-elites? I see crypto as more of a competitor for jewelry and other fine assets traditionally used to expatriate familial and illicit wealth from collapsing regimes, than as a mechanism adopted by every day citizens. For example, how exactly are Venezuelans supposed to participate in crypto when their internet and electrical grids are so unstable?
  - stevenwoo 7y ago
    There were several articles over the past years citing individuals in South Korea seeing bitcoin as an opportunity for a middle class life and in Eastern Europe with the same end goals. some recent updates: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/10/business/south-korea-bitcoin-cryptocurrencies.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/10/business/south-korea-bitc... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/business/georgia-bitcoin-blockchain-bitfury.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/business/georgia-bitcoin-...
  - Lucadg 7y ago
    Illicit wealth in corrupt regimes may be a case of justice over law
- empath75 7y ago
  The people in these countries by and large have no money to buy bitcoin with. The people in those countries that do have money are mostly corrupt, and they’re the ones that are using bitcoin.

mrep 7y ago

South Korea does not have a high inflation rate. They are averaging like 1.5% [0]. [0]: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-economy-inflation/south-korea-inflation-slows-to-near-three-year-low-bolsters-rate-cut-expectations-idUSKCN1RD3G3 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-southkorea-economy-inflat...

olalonde 7y ago
They do however have pretty strict capital controls making it difficult to transfer money out of the country (which is why Bitcoin has historically traded at a premium in South Korea).
- intertextuality 7y ago
  Note that lawmakers were increasingly been targeting bitcoin in S.Korea. Foreigners (any foreigners, even ones with Korean visas and/or who are Korean but were born abroad) and minors can't sign up to exchanges anymore, for example.

wslh 7y ago

There are other things people in developed countries like US don't see. For example in Argentina (beyond the inflation issues) when you receive payments from foreign customers banks use an unfair USD/ARS rate while doing it via other services using Bitcoin you receive a fair exchange. All this in a legal/regulated way.

conanbatt 7y ago
This is not true anymore. The number one usage of BTC in argentina is tax evasion.
- wslh 7y ago
  This is true today and has nothing to do with tax evasion. Tax evasion in Argentina is part of the "culture" and BTC is just another method. The BTC usage in Argentina is very niche.

buzzdenver 7y ago

Bitcoin is really far from stable though. It can easily become worthless just like any other currency that gets inflated away.

intertextuality 7y ago

South Korea does not belong in that list at all. The inflation rate is also only 1.4% to 1.5%.

quickben 7y ago

Having lived through a hyperinflation, I would not have touched Bitcoin with a ten foot pole. You want a rock stable foreign currency when the times are hard, not something that can push you even lower due to loss of even the minimal resources that you have.

vbezhenar 7y ago

I live in Kazakhstan with crazy inflation and I just store my savings in US dollars. Works fine for me.

mikeash 7y ago

Let’s say that I live in Venezuela, getting paid in Bolivars that depreciate so rapidly that I immediately go to the store to buy as much as possible before prices inflate out of reach. How do I use Bitcoin to improve my life? I just don’t see how it helps.

ricardobeat 7y ago
You sell small amounts at the daily BTC x [venezuela currency] rate? It allows your money to retain its value.
- mikeash 7y ago
  Is it practical to regularly buy small amounts, given the high transaction costs? And who is selling Bitcoin for Bolivars?
- inlined 7y ago
  Last I heard (on planet money), the median wage in Venezuela was enough to buy just less than two eggs per day. How much can they spare for investment? https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=642266470 https://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?stor...
  - ricardobeat 7y ago
    Not for investment, but for protecting the value from one day to the next, since inflation is 25000%/year. (I’m just hypothesizing here, would love to hear from someone who knows what is going on)
  - sodafountan 7y ago
    What they need is a stable electric grid and local miners selling to local exchanges - that way they can transact directly in Bolivar or barter if the currency ends up becoming completely worthless. I'm not necessarily saying any of that is practical, but a stable electric grid and internet access is key - perhaps renewable energy and access to the blockstream satellite would be the solution

astura 7y ago

I don't think storing your money in a form that requires electricity to use is a good idea if you live in a country that experiences blackouts that last days.

baby 7y ago

nice FUD. South Korea has no problems + Bitcoin is not a steady currency.