5 ms·

Individual members of a classical orchestra are not really visible to the audience though. They're not necessarily hidden, but they're generally too far away fo

Individual members of a classical orchestra are not really visible to the audience though. They're not necessarily hidden, but they're generally too far away for looks to matter very much (except possibly in cases of extreme disfiguration).

jacquesm 7y ago
And even then the result can be mindblowing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PyYcnXQZJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PyYcnXQZJY Not exactly a classical orchestra, but it serves well to illustrate the point.
- jdietrich 7y ago
  The difference between classical and jazz musicians points to a deeper conversation about diversity. Classical musicians are a cog in a big musical machine, so they are almost by definition less diverse. There's no room in a classical orchestra for a pianist who can't reach the far ends of the keyboard (Michel Petrucciani), there's no room for a guitarist with two-and-a-half working fingers on his fretting hand (Django Reinhardt), there's no room for a singer with a completely unique vocal range (Jimmy Scott). Jazz is more amicable to diversity than classical music on a fundamental level, because it's based on improvisation and unique personal expression. If you're physically unable to play the same way as everyone else, you're pretty much useless to a classical orchestra but you may well become a pioneer in jazz. Some obstacles to diversity can't be overcome with blind auditions and quotas and sensitivity training. Some environments are lacking in diversity because they are structurally incompatible with diversity; they can't have diversity retrofitted on to them, but need to be reformed from the ground up.
  - NotableAlamode 7y ago
    Classical music is fine as it is, no need to change. Why should being based on improvisation and unique personal expression be the be-all-and-end-all of analysis? Not everybody wants to play / hear improvised music.
    - jdietrich 7y ago
      > Classical music is fine as it is, no need to change. Classical music is dying, because the audience is literally dying of old age. Jazz or folk can sustain itself as a niche pursuit, because a small ensemble can profitably play to a small audience; a symphony orchestra has an enormous wage bill and has to fill a large hall week in and week out. Classical music can renew itself and guarantee a sustained future, but it can't do it without fundamental structural reform. If classical musicians want a secure future for their art form, they need to seriously reflect on what classical music is, what it could be and what it needs to be. It's not enough to offer cheap tickets to under-30s, it's not enough to have the odd pops concert in the park - lip service will not abate an existential threat. https://www.artsjournal.com/sandow/2011/03/age_of_the_audience.html https://www.artsjournal.com/sandow/2011/03/age_of_the_audien...
      - NotableAlamode 7y ago
        What you are saying is that classical should appeal more to popular tastes. Maybe we should restrict classical rhythms to 4/4, ensure that all songs are around 4 minutes long, 132 BPM, and have Intro-Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Middle8-Chorus-Chorus-Outro structure. Maybe we should also ensure that all classical music has a young moron rapping over the song, maybe about his "hoes" and "biches"!
      - atq2119 7y ago
        Classical music is alive and well in the form of film scores.

jacquesm 7y ago

And even then the result can be mindblowing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PyYcnXQZJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PyYcnXQZJY Not exactly a classical orchestra, but it serves well to illustrate the point.

jdietrich 7y ago
The difference between classical and jazz musicians points to a deeper conversation about diversity. Classical musicians are a cog in a big musical machine, so they are almost by definition less diverse. There's no room in a classical orchestra for a pianist who can't reach the far ends of the keyboard (Michel Petrucciani), there's no room for a guitarist with two-and-a-half working fingers on his fretting hand (Django Reinhardt), there's no room for a singer with a completely unique vocal range (Jimmy Scott). Jazz is more amicable to diversity than classical music on a fundamental level, because it's based on improvisation and unique personal expression. If you're physically unable to play the same way as everyone else, you're pretty much useless to a classical orchestra but you may well become a pioneer in jazz. Some obstacles to diversity can't be overcome with blind auditions and quotas and sensitivity training. Some environments are lacking in diversity because they are structurally incompatible with diversity; they can't have diversity retrofitted on to them, but need to be reformed from the ground up.
- NotableAlamode 7y ago
  Classical music is fine as it is, no need to change. Why should being based on improvisation and unique personal expression be the be-all-and-end-all of analysis? Not everybody wants to play / hear improvised music.
  - jdietrich 7y ago
    > Classical music is fine as it is, no need to change. Classical music is dying, because the audience is literally dying of old age. Jazz or folk can sustain itself as a niche pursuit, because a small ensemble can profitably play to a small audience; a symphony orchestra has an enormous wage bill and has to fill a large hall week in and week out. Classical music can renew itself and guarantee a sustained future, but it can't do it without fundamental structural reform. If classical musicians want a secure future for their art form, they need to seriously reflect on what classical music is, what it could be and what it needs to be. It's not enough to offer cheap tickets to under-30s, it's not enough to have the odd pops concert in the park - lip service will not abate an existential threat. https://www.artsjournal.com/sandow/2011/03/age_of_the_audience.html https://www.artsjournal.com/sandow/2011/03/age_of_the_audien...
    - NotableAlamode 7y ago
      What you are saying is that classical should appeal more to popular tastes. Maybe we should restrict classical rhythms to 4/4, ensure that all songs are around 4 minutes long, 132 BPM, and have Intro-Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Middle8-Chorus-Chorus-Outro structure. Maybe we should also ensure that all classical music has a young moron rapping over the song, maybe about his "hoes" and "biches"!
    - atq2119 7y ago
      Classical music is alive and well in the form of film scores.