4 ms·

It's been years since I read Guns, Germs and Steel, but I think I remember the one or other thing. Off the top of my head: north/south axis of the Americas vs

It's been years since I read Guns, Germs and Steel, but I think I remember the one or other thing. Off the top of my head: north/south axis of the Americas vs East/West of Europe/Axis - same crops can grow everywhere. No big mammals suitable for herding had survived in the Americas, sweetcorn only crop suitable for breeding for agriculture. Writing may have been discovered in some places for fun, but discarded because it was useless - only became established when it was needed for bookkeeping. One thing I think about a lot, actually, especially with all the discussion here in Europe about the European union: China didn't conquer the other continents because at some point in time, some emperor simply decided China would abandon sailing the high oceans, and China stuck to the decision for hundreds of years. Same thing couldn't happen in Europe because of competition between all the small kingdoms. In general I seem to remember things from Jared Diamond's books. For many other books I would have to admit the article has a point.

Amezarak 7y ago
I haven’t read the book, but the axis argument needs a ton of support since it’s absolutely not true that the same crops were or could be cultivated at the same latitudes in Eurasia, in part because the same latitude still has a lot of different climates. For most of history, any given crop was confined to a pretty small area in Eurasia. It’s also certainly not true that there were no large mammals in the Americas suitable for herding, nor that sweet corn was the only crop suitable for breeding for agriculture. Everything I have come across of Diamond’s ideas suggest to me it’s not worth reading the book - which is one benefit of short-form low attention span mediums like the Internet. :)
- bubblewrap 7y ago
  What mammals where there suitable for herding, and what crops? It has been 18 years since I read the book, so perhaps you shouldn't judge it by my memories. Also curious about your source for the crops confined to a small areas.
  - bubblewrap 7y ago
    It was "domestication", not just "suitable for herding": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns%2C_Germs%2C_and_Steel#Agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns%2C_Germs%2C_and_Steel#Agr... "Diamond identifies a mere 14 domesticated large mammal species worldwide. The five most useful (cow, horse, sheep, goat, and pig) are all descendants of species endemic to Eurasia. Of the remaining nine, only two (the llama and alpaca both of South America) are indigenous to a land outside the temperate region of Eurasia." "Smaller domesticable animals such as dogs, cats, chickens, and guinea pigs may be valuable in various ways to an agricultural society, but will not be adequate in themselves to sustain large-scale agrarian society."

Amezarak 7y ago

I haven’t read the book, but the axis argument needs a ton of support since it’s absolutely not true that the same crops were or could be cultivated at the same latitudes in Eurasia, in part because the same latitude still has a lot of different climates. For most of history, any given crop was confined to a pretty small area in Eurasia. It’s also certainly not true that there were no large mammals in the Americas suitable for herding, nor that sweet corn was the only crop suitable for breeding for agriculture. Everything I have come across of Diamond’s ideas suggest to me it’s not worth reading the book - which is one benefit of short-form low attention span mediums like the Internet. :)

bubblewrap 7y ago
What mammals where there suitable for herding, and what crops? It has been 18 years since I read the book, so perhaps you shouldn't judge it by my memories. Also curious about your source for the crops confined to a small areas.
- bubblewrap 7y ago
  It was "domestication", not just "suitable for herding": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns%2C_Germs%2C_and_Steel#Agriculture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns%2C_Germs%2C_and_Steel#Agr... "Diamond identifies a mere 14 domesticated large mammal species worldwide. The five most useful (cow, horse, sheep, goat, and pig) are all descendants of species endemic to Eurasia. Of the remaining nine, only two (the llama and alpaca both of South America) are indigenous to a land outside the temperate region of Eurasia." "Smaller domesticable animals such as dogs, cats, chickens, and guinea pigs may be valuable in various ways to an agricultural society, but will not be adequate in themselves to sustain large-scale agrarian society."