4 ms·

Caches disabled... The browser caches things for a reason. I understand disabling caches to measure the network performance. However, that does entirely give a

by anfilt 7y ago

Caches disabled... The browser caches things for a reason. I understand disabling caches to measure the network performance. However, that does entirely give a clear picture. If your wanting things you have already visited to load instantly it's hard to beat the browsers own caches. The first thing that effects page time is network latency and there is no getting around that. AMP may help because google has lots of servers that may be closer, but if the underlying network is slow. AMP will still be slow. Also the next thing is frame size. If the network path has high latency, but the ability push large frames you can send more per request. This is where things like inlining can help. It also reduces the request number. AMP can't get rid the properties of the network. It's also generally the last mile that is slow not back bone. -edit- I find it interesting that the github link provided mentions portals are for "AMP Carousel like UI with navigation to publisher (alternative to iframe promotion)"

HALtheWise 7y ago
It simply isn't true that there is no getting around network latency. For example, when I tap an image in a Facebook feed in their app, the story actually does load instantly, regardless of how slow my network is, because it is already downloaded on my device. It may even work offline. AMP is an attempt to match that performance with web pages. Sure, none of this is true if the user manually types into the address bar, but most web navigation isn't done that way.
- FridgeSeal 7y ago
  That latency and network slowness still exists. It’s just being hidden from you. It’s disingenuous to compare AMP style loading with a normal page visit and say “AMP is faster”; if I could preload my webpage before you click on it, it would be faster to load as well! That doesn’t actually mean the website is any faster.
  - twblalock 7y ago
    > That doesn’t actually mean the website is any faster. It is perceived as faster by the users, and that's the only standard of speed that users really care about.
    - anfilt 7y ago
      There also a disadvantage to pre-fetching/preloading data. For users with data caps it wastes data on something they may never view.
- bamboozled 7y ago
  So they used clever tricks to get around network latency, but there was still latency in the transaction at some point. Saying there they removed latency is like saying they’ve removed the speed of light. Didn’t happen, they just preload content for you, because in you’re case, it’s possible to do so.
- anfilt 7y ago
  You can already tell browser to preload content without AMP. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Preloading_content https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Preloading... You can also prefetch. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Link_prefetching_FAQ https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Link_prefe... Also preloading/pre-fetching does not get around latency. It just changes when it happens.
  - Gaelan 7y ago
    HAL, earlier in the thread: > Unfortunately, users have a strong privacy expectation that random websites will not be notified that you are interested in them until you actually click the link in search results (or news, or whatever). For precaching to work without violating user privacy, the data needs to be loaded from some server that already knows that the link was shown to you, so there is no privacy violation from giving it that information. AMP's solution is for the host company of the results page to fill that role.
    - Rebelgecko 7y ago
      >Unfortunately, users have a strong privacy expectation that random websites will not be notified that you are interested in them until you actually click the link in search results I'm not sure that this is actually true, at least for the vast majority of users.
      - anfilt 7y ago
        You can disable or enable in firefox. However if users do have strong privacy preferences what makes it okay for AMP to do that. At least a browser setting the user can configure.
    - anfilt 7y ago
      And in firefox I can enable or disable pre-fetching/preloading not sure about chrome. However, if the user has disabled pre-fetching what makes it okay for AMP to do it?

by anfilt 7y ago

HALtheWise 7y ago

It simply isn't true that there is no getting around network latency. For example, when I tap an image in a Facebook feed in their app, the story actually does load instantly, regardless of how slow my network is, because it is already downloaded on my device. It may even work offline. AMP is an attempt to match that performance with web pages. Sure, none of this is true if the user manually types into the address bar, but most web navigation isn't done that way.

FridgeSeal 7y ago
That latency and network slowness still exists. It’s just being hidden from you. It’s disingenuous to compare AMP style loading with a normal page visit and say “AMP is faster”; if I could preload my webpage before you click on it, it would be faster to load as well! That doesn’t actually mean the website is any faster.
- twblalock 7y ago
  > That doesn’t actually mean the website is any faster. It is perceived as faster by the users, and that's the only standard of speed that users really care about.
  - anfilt 7y ago
    There also a disadvantage to pre-fetching/preloading data. For users with data caps it wastes data on something they may never view.
bamboozled 7y ago
So they used clever tricks to get around network latency, but there was still latency in the transaction at some point. Saying there they removed latency is like saying they’ve removed the speed of light. Didn’t happen, they just preload content for you, because in you’re case, it’s possible to do so.
anfilt 7y ago
You can already tell browser to preload content without AMP. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Preloading_content https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Preloading... You can also prefetch. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Link_prefetching_FAQ https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Link_prefe... Also preloading/pre-fetching does not get around latency. It just changes when it happens.
- Gaelan 7y ago
  HAL, earlier in the thread: > Unfortunately, users have a strong privacy expectation that random websites will not be notified that you are interested in them until you actually click the link in search results (or news, or whatever). For precaching to work without violating user privacy, the data needs to be loaded from some server that already knows that the link was shown to you, so there is no privacy violation from giving it that information. AMP's solution is for the host company of the results page to fill that role.
  - Rebelgecko 7y ago
    >Unfortunately, users have a strong privacy expectation that random websites will not be notified that you are interested in them until you actually click the link in search results I'm not sure that this is actually true, at least for the vast majority of users.
    - anfilt 7y ago
      You can disable or enable in firefox. However if users do have strong privacy preferences what makes it okay for AMP to do that. At least a browser setting the user can configure.
  - anfilt 7y ago
    And in firefox I can enable or disable pre-fetching/preloading not sure about chrome. However, if the user has disabled pre-fetching what makes it okay for AMP to do it?