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This makes me wonder what the legacy effects of the Stasi today and one gauge of that would be a measure of age demographic uptake of social media for people wh

by Zenst 7y ago

This makes me wonder what the legacy effects of the Stasi today and one gauge of that would be a measure of age demographic uptake of social media for people who grew up under the Stasi and compare that to west german's of the same age demographic. A quick dig into this and: https://www.internetworldstats.com/europa.htm https://www.internetworldstats.com/europa.htm proved a bit insightful, whilst this only has the data for Germany (as a whole as it is again with no East/West) it does show in contrast to other EU members a lower uptake of social media when you factor in internet access. Whilst Poland does show lower, if you scale in internet access you see that Germany per population is a lower uptake. You could also see some impact in previous communist countries, though for many, internet penitration is lower and that plays a factor. Bulgaria shows low usage but in relation to those with internet access - it is pretty high. So hard to see any true correlation. A better set of statistics would enable some true analysis. But on a quick glance, it would seem to of had a legacy impact upon people who grew up in that time who may well have a predisposition towards - not sharing personal information.

johannes1234321 7y ago
I don't have numbers, but West Germany has string privacy culture. On the one side deriving from Nazi/Gestapo rejection as well as being different from GDR/Stasi. With many political debates. See for instance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determina...
- Zenst 7y ago
  Thank you; That ties in so well with my train of thought and feeling from what I was seeing that I can put this one to bed and not spend all night pondering it. Thank you so much for that.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
One of the clearest indicators that correlates with a difference in mindset is to look at Google Streetview. Most places it's fairly uncommon to see a property opted out. In Germany, it's really common to see properties blurred. When it was first rolling out there were articles with pictures of streets where more was blurred than not. Not sure if acceptance has increased much in the years since then, but I'd assume the current young generation may be less bothered.
- Zenst 7y ago
  That's very interesting as it shows an active pursuit of privacy above and beyond policing themselves, but also others in regard to themselves. I also found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_concerns#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_con... interesting, and thought the perspective from this quote "At a forum on privacy held in Berlin by the Green Party, a member of the audience asked whether future historians would blame the current generation for leaving German cities in digital ruins as bombs did the real landscape in World War II", to be one aspect many would overlook and equally a most elegant way of putting across a point that cuts thru the generation divides. I suspect you are right about younger generations, but reading about an historical event and experiencing it are two different experiences. Whilst it is possible to learn from both, only one is a reinforced lesson.
  - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
    As interesting is that English language Wikipedia chooses to pick out that minority, but more US-typical, view - I suspect German language Wiki may emphasise it differently, whilst being equally neutral. :) The Abwehr and SiPo, later Stasi and NKVD/KGB habit of adding people to lists - of elites, of jews, of defectives that are to be corrected, reformed or exterminated may be thought far more responsible than the current generation. As someone who was thought privacy conscious even prior to Snowden, I'm astonished the Dutch, Poles, British etc haven't turned out as strident on privacy as the Germans. There was a SiPo list, and Gestapo list of British elites and trouble makers to be eliminated on invasion, the Poles and Dutch had their lists actioned etc. All the former Eastern bloc had their own oppressive security apparatus just as long as the GDR. > Whilst it is possible to learn from both, only one is a reinforced lesson. As an aside that is why I am vehemently against the modern trend for professional politicians - that gave us mainly wealthy elites playing at it. Even if still young I want politicians with experience of a stint of war or at least in the military, of extreme poverty, of manufacturing, or healthcare etc. Those types of things used to be the reason one went into politics.

by Zenst 7y ago

johannes1234321 7y ago

I don't have numbers, but West Germany has string privacy culture. On the one side deriving from Nazi/Gestapo rejection as well as being different from GDR/Stasi. With many political debates. See for instance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determination https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informational_self-determina...

Zenst 7y ago
Thank you; That ties in so well with my train of thought and feeling from what I was seeing that I can put this one to bed and not spend all night pondering it. Thank you so much for that.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

One of the clearest indicators that correlates with a difference in mindset is to look at Google Streetview. Most places it's fairly uncommon to see a property opted out. In Germany, it's really common to see properties blurred. When it was first rolling out there were articles with pictures of streets where more was blurred than not. Not sure if acceptance has increased much in the years since then, but I'd assume the current young generation may be less bothered.

Zenst 7y ago
That's very interesting as it shows an active pursuit of privacy above and beyond policing themselves, but also others in regard to themselves. I also found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_concerns#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_con... interesting, and thought the perspective from this quote "At a forum on privacy held in Berlin by the Green Party, a member of the audience asked whether future historians would blame the current generation for leaving German cities in digital ruins as bombs did the real landscape in World War II", to be one aspect many would overlook and equally a most elegant way of putting across a point that cuts thru the generation divides. I suspect you are right about younger generations, but reading about an historical event and experiencing it are two different experiences. Whilst it is possible to learn from both, only one is a reinforced lesson.
- NeedMoreTea 7y ago
  As interesting is that English language Wikipedia chooses to pick out that minority, but more US-typical, view - I suspect German language Wiki may emphasise it differently, whilst being equally neutral. :) The Abwehr and SiPo, later Stasi and NKVD/KGB habit of adding people to lists - of elites, of jews, of defectives that are to be corrected, reformed or exterminated may be thought far more responsible than the current generation. As someone who was thought privacy conscious even prior to Snowden, I'm astonished the Dutch, Poles, British etc haven't turned out as strident on privacy as the Germans. There was a SiPo list, and Gestapo list of British elites and trouble makers to be eliminated on invasion, the Poles and Dutch had their lists actioned etc. All the former Eastern bloc had their own oppressive security apparatus just as long as the GDR. > Whilst it is possible to learn from both, only one is a reinforced lesson. As an aside that is why I am vehemently against the modern trend for professional politicians - that gave us mainly wealthy elites playing at it. Even if still young I want politicians with experience of a stint of war or at least in the military, of extreme poverty, of manufacturing, or healthcare etc. Those types of things used to be the reason one went into politics.