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For people who are unfamiliar with all the acronyms: ASF : Apache Software Foundation EC : Executive Committee EE : Enterprise Edition JCP : Java Comm

by kqr2 16y ago

For people who are unfamiliar with all the acronyms: ASF : Apache Software Foundation EC : Executive Committee EE : Enterprise Edition JCP : Java Community Process JSR : Java Specification Request JSPA : Java Specification Participation Agreement SE : Standard Edition TCK : Test Compatibility Kit

angrycoder 16y ago
That helps, but can someone provide a babblefish translation of what this means for those of us who don't live in the Java world? Is it basically... Dear Java, We remember when you used to be cool. Now you spend all of your time drinking and hanging out with lawyers. We are leaving and taking the dog and all of the CDs with us. Love, Apache
- lenni 16y ago
  I believe that is basically it. They won't be participating in writing specifications, but I don't think that anyone will be stopping Apache (or anyone else) from implementing any of the JSRs. If a hypothetical Java Servlet API v4.0 would be released they could still make Tomcat be compliant with it. On the other hand Tomcat is very widely used in the not-quite-huge-enterprise companies and it is obviously helpful for a spec if all implementers can agree on some common ground before it is written. ECMA probably wouldn't see a point in doing ES5 if Microsoft and Mozilla would not talk to them.
  - yesno 16y ago
    It might be a matter of time before Oracle decided to cut all of the oxygen lines for these open source solutions judging from Ellison's comment about RedHat business models. What do you think would happen in order for a library to be certified (passed a certain TCK) would require to pay Oracle a huge amount of money? Oracle can get more money from IBM, RedHat, SpringSource (SS uses a modified Tomcat for their tcServer) and a slew bunch of other companies. Whether they'll do it or not, I don't know.
- kbutler 16y ago
  Dear Java, You said you wanted to be friends, but Oracle just wants us as fans. We need more in a relationship. Love, Apache
- maddalab 16y ago
  Translation : We are breaking up, except this time, it's not me, it's you -Kicking ass and taking names
hannesw 16y ago
Another important one is this: FOU: field-of-use restrictions (in the TCK license). http://skife.org/java/jcp/2010/12/07/the-tck-trap.html http://skife.org/java/jcp/2010/12/07/the-tck-trap.html http://jcp.org/en/jsr/results?id=5111 http://jcp.org/en/jsr/results?id=5111
- kls 16y ago
  Right that is the big one that I have been explaining to people when asked. The secret under the covers is mobile and Oracle's dead set position on that platform. The are doing everything in their power to eliminate all non-Oracle run times from mobile devices. With mobile expected to be the dominate platform in 18 months and it's relative immaturity when compared to other older platforms, there is a huge potential for revenue to anyone who can become the Microsoft of mobile. Now the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that Oracle is eliminating the VM's on mobile not because they have competency there (Ellison is smart enough know it would be a forgone battle to try to now edge in between IOS and Android) but rather to clear the market for a sympathetic partner that will split the purse. And I think that partner is none other than Apple. I find the timing of Apple relinquishing the JDK back to Oracle timely and suspicious further both Steve and Larry know that the other has significant competencies is separate, independent, non-overlapping, but complementary markets. If the mobile market it seceded to a closed vertical vendor they are free to chose who become the infrastructure to support the new global mobile network. I think the land has already been divided up and now it is just time to play the battle out.

by kqr2 16y ago

angrycoder 16y ago

That helps, but can someone provide a babblefish translation of what this means for those of us who don't live in the Java world? Is it basically... Dear Java, We remember when you used to be cool. Now you spend all of your time drinking and hanging out with lawyers. We are leaving and taking the dog and all of the CDs with us. Love, Apache

lenni 16y ago
I believe that is basically it. They won't be participating in writing specifications, but I don't think that anyone will be stopping Apache (or anyone else) from implementing any of the JSRs. If a hypothetical Java Servlet API v4.0 would be released they could still make Tomcat be compliant with it. On the other hand Tomcat is very widely used in the not-quite-huge-enterprise companies and it is obviously helpful for a spec if all implementers can agree on some common ground before it is written. ECMA probably wouldn't see a point in doing ES5 if Microsoft and Mozilla would not talk to them.
- yesno 16y ago
  It might be a matter of time before Oracle decided to cut all of the oxygen lines for these open source solutions judging from Ellison's comment about RedHat business models. What do you think would happen in order for a library to be certified (passed a certain TCK) would require to pay Oracle a huge amount of money? Oracle can get more money from IBM, RedHat, SpringSource (SS uses a modified Tomcat for their tcServer) and a slew bunch of other companies. Whether they'll do it or not, I don't know.
kbutler 16y ago
Dear Java, You said you wanted to be friends, but Oracle just wants us as fans. We need more in a relationship. Love, Apache
maddalab 16y ago
Translation : We are breaking up, except this time, it's not me, it's you -Kicking ass and taking names

hannesw 16y ago

Another important one is this: FOU: field-of-use restrictions (in the TCK license). http://skife.org/java/jcp/2010/12/07/the-tck-trap.html http://skife.org/java/jcp/2010/12/07/the-tck-trap.html http://jcp.org/en/jsr/results?id=5111 http://jcp.org/en/jsr/results?id=5111

kls 16y ago
Right that is the big one that I have been explaining to people when asked. The secret under the covers is mobile and Oracle's dead set position on that platform. The are doing everything in their power to eliminate all non-Oracle run times from mobile devices. With mobile expected to be the dominate platform in 18 months and it's relative immaturity when compared to other older platforms, there is a huge potential for revenue to anyone who can become the Microsoft of mobile. Now the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that Oracle is eliminating the VM's on mobile not because they have competency there (Ellison is smart enough know it would be a forgone battle to try to now edge in between IOS and Android) but rather to clear the market for a sympathetic partner that will split the purse. And I think that partner is none other than Apple. I find the timing of Apple relinquishing the JDK back to Oracle timely and suspicious further both Steve and Larry know that the other has significant competencies is separate, independent, non-overlapping, but complementary markets. If the mobile market it seceded to a closed vertical vendor they are free to chose who become the infrastructure to support the new global mobile network. I think the land has already been divided up and now it is just time to play the battle out.