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Social Media and Self Harm: The Need to ‘Do Something’
- jdietrich 8y agoThe worst syllogism in modern politics: Something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done.
- bschelsea 8y agoTell me when your daughter is suicidal and suffering from ED/Self Harm.
- jdietrich 8y agoI have suffered from severe treatment-resistant depression since childhood, but that's completely irrelevant - anecdotal experiences are no substitute for good data. The best available data suggests that social media has a mix of positive and negative effects on self-harm and suicidal behaviour, with no clear net effect. Ill-conceived policy with a poor evidence base may stifle healthy conversation and connection, while doing little or nothing to reduce harms. https://dx.doi.org/10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0077555 https://dx.doi.org/10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0077555 If you sincerely believe that your daughter's phone is trying to kill her, then take away her damned phone.
- bschelsea 8y agoPLOS One has very little reviewing standards and accepts almost all papers. Given how strongly linked smartphones are to all aspects of life. You are vastly underestimating difficulty of taking aways someone’s smartphone. Since worst case you can ask Cops and Telecom provider for location.
- trophycase 8y agoSo block/delete instagram? I agree that something should probably be done, but I had to take the same steps to block reddit and the like.
- bschelsea 8y agoI completely agree with you, except Apple indiscriminately destroyed an entire industry of parental control apps under guise of Privacy. How is a parent supposed to enforce this (blocking Instagram).
- geofft 8y agoWith Apple's built-in parental control tech? Literally Apple only killed the industry once they made a free alternative that does exactly this. Wanting to be a bad parent is one thing, but at least get your facts straight.
- DanBC 8y ago> Wanting to be a bad parent There's no need for that.
- bschelsea 8y agoThat’s false, alternatives offered by Apple don’t even come close to functionality provided by third party apps. E.g. easily using the browser instead of app.
- icebraining 8y agoA quick search shows it lets you block sites too[1], although you have to enable the porn blocker to do so, for some daft reason. What do you have in mind that can't be done using that, and which was possible using a now-banned app? [1] https://www.cultofmac.com/570719/block-website-iphone-ipad/ https://www.cultofmac.com/570719/block-website-iphone-ipad/
- orhmeh09 8y agoThat is not true about PLOS One and it’s not a line to just drop whenever anyone links to a study on there. Please substantiate these kinds of statements.
- robotresearcher 8y agoIt does have an unusual editorial policy: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/s/reviewer-guidelines https://journals.plos.org/plosone/s/reviewer-guidelines "Unlike many journals which attempt to use the peer review process to determine whether or not an article reaches the level of 'importance' required by a given journal, PLOS ONE uses peer review to determine whether a paper is technically rigorous and worthy of inclusion in the published scientific record."
- DataWorker 8y agoIt’s not the phone but the companies that gather user data which is then used to psychologically influence people.
- sandworm101 8y agoTaking away a teenagers phone might be an answer, but it comes with risks. Disconnecting a child from their peer group should not be done casually. (let's not kid ourselves. That's what taking a phone away means.) It may have the desired effect, but will likely have a great many unexpected effects too. And I would bet good money that she would acquire another phone very quickly.
- LMYahooTFY 8y agoCan you elaborate on this? To me this reads as a complete non-sequitur to the GP. He's pointing out how the problem manifests in the political arena. You're suggesting they don't have enough sympathy for young girls suffering from social media related depression?
- twblalock 8y ago> Tell me when your daughter is suicidal and suffering from ED/Self Harm. Telling their parents might make things even worse. Abusive parents are, in some cases, the cause of the child's psychological problems in the first place.
- CM30 8y agoIt's one of the reasons the US system seems to be working best in these times; the constitution making laws difficult to change works perfectly to stop moral outrages and controversies and make people reconsider whether that 'something' is the best solution.
- jdsully 8y agoThe reaction seems to be concentrating power in the President who can "do something". The centralizing of power and erosion of the original US system has been monotonic for the last 200 years. First they came for the states by broadening the interstate commerce clause far beyond any rational reading. And now congress has ceded its authority in key areas such as treaties (fast tracking), declarations of war, and in process now: the right to subpoena information (we'll see how this one turns out).
- SolaceQuantum 8y agoI believe 1/2 of congress is trying to subpoena information (the house) but the actual people who are responsible for obeying that subpoena are refusing to- and at the same time, those people are the people responsible to enforce any law to punish them for refusing subpoena. So they can essentially ignore congress's demands with no consequences. I think this has always been the case but hasn't happened so distinctly until now?
- jdsully 8y agoCongress has the power to "arrest and detain recalcitrant witnesses". The fact that this isn't being seriously considered is further evidence of the erosion of real power congress has. For an example of what this looks like refer to the Sargent at Arms arresting someone in possession of Facebook documents the UK parliament wanted: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/24/mps-seize-cache-facebook-internal-papers https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/nov/24/mps-seize...
- SolaceQuantum 8y ago
- bschelsea 8y agoHuh that’s a bizarre take on the situation. Try explaining this to a parent whose daughter is suffering from ED and Self Harm. The sociologist/apologists won’t let instagram do anything since it breaks their fantasy of free speech being always “net” positive. And Apple won’t let the parent monitor her own daughter because think about PRIVACY!!!! The truth is the industry optimizes for anarchy under the guise of liberal ideology and privacy. As society wises up to this ruse we will see great push back against the fake SV philosophy.
- geofft 8y agoAs a technologist, I don't think I have a responsibility to the daughter's parents, either to do anything about the situation or to explain anything about it. I do have a responsibility to the daughter to get her the help she needs; that help is potentially not from her parents.
- bschelsea 8y agoGreat thanks for proving my point. Let’s replace technologist by medical professionals and you can see immediately that parents consent is required for most medical procedures barring edge cases where doctors get a court order. Oh also COPPA exists for this very deluded thinking that “technologist” like you have.
- jdietrich 8y ago> Let’s replace technologist by medical professionals and you can see immediately that parents consent is required for most medical procedures barring edge cases where doctors get a court order. Many states allow minors to receive mental health treatment without the consent of their parents and allow those minors to retain confidentiality. https://dx.doi.org/10.1080%2F1067828X.2013.777380 https://dx.doi.org/10.1080%2F1067828X.2013.777380
- DanBC 8y agoThis article is from England, and the context is a person in England who died by suicide, and the English government advancing white papers that talk about online harm. In that context, the English rules abuot medical treatment seem useful. Someone the age of 16 or over is assumed to have capacity to make medical decisions by themselves (and there's complex law to regulate if they're thought to lack that capacity). Someone under 15 or under can also have that capacity: the doctor would need to check if the patient is Gillick Competent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillick_competence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillick_competence
- DoreenMichele 8y agoIn my Twitter timeline, posts about self harm or suicidal ideation are generally met by a supportive atmosphere of concerned people. When there is the opportunity, I try to make comments that validate people in a way that doesn't promote or encourage self harm, suicide attempts, etc. I've attempted suicide. I know a fair amount about such issues. No, shutting down the conversation isn't a good move. Instead, we need to promote best practices that make such conversations more constructive. It can be done.
- jmts 8y agoThe biggest hurdle to conversation I find in my experience is that people who have never been there find it difficult to comprehend the mental state you're in when you're depressed. At least in my experience, social media would have been just a drop in the sea. In a way, suggesting social media is a problem just reflects how little understanding people have over what is going on inside a depressed person's mind. The moment you wake up in the morning, you have some idea whether you're going to have an 'easy day' or a 'difficult day'. From that point on, it's a constant battle against your own mind, trying to avoid letting things become a 'bad day'. If you stub your toe on the door frame leaving your bedroom, your day is now a 'bad day' and you have 12 hours of mental struggle to look forward to. You haven't even had the opportunity to find out the clothes you wanted to wear aren't clean, that you're out of milk so you have to have toast for breakfast. You haven't had a chance to drop your spoon on the floor, or accidentally slam the cupboard too loudly. You haven't made it to work or school yet where you'll have to deal with all your least favourite people. And every one of these things makes your day harder, and harder, until you can't hold it back, and all of a sudden you're being held hostage by your own mind. Shit is already hard before you get to social media. Sure, social media probably contributes, but so many things contribute, you cannot eliminate them all.
- DoreenMichele 8y agoTo my mind, the bigger problem is that when people talk about big feelings, especially in any strongly expressive fashion, people get sucked into talking about feelings as if feelings are the end all and be all. Feelings come from somewhere. When I try to engage people, I try to address root causes of feelings. I don't try to massage their feelings or something like that. Most people either try to somehow stop the outpouring of negative feelings or respond by countering it with an outpouring of positives because their entire focus is the feelings. This tends to go bad places for everyone involved and one danger is that if everyone is nice to you when you are openly whining about being suicidal, that may actively "reward" you for being suicidal. People who are suicidal are often people who are being generally treated like shit on a routine basis by a lot of the people around them. So being nice to them only when they are openly suicidal actively encourages suicidal ideation. Most people are too clueless to make an effort to find opportunities to engage them positively that don't promote suicidal feelings.