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As much as I'm often dismayed by the negativity on HN (or, let's say, brutal honesty: "this product is shit!") - harsh reactions are definitely warranted for ca

As much as I'm often dismayed by the negativity on HN (or, let's say, brutal honesty: "this product is shit!") - harsh reactions are definitely warranted for cases like this anti-competitive behavior. Let's keep raising the stink, I hope the powers that be are paying attention. (Long-time DDG and Firefox user, doing my best to de-Google myself and my loved ones)

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jimmaswell 8y ago
Does Google make its own content which gets preferentially treated based on AMP, or why is this anticompetitive?
- bduerst 8y ago
  It's not anticompetitive. It's a web standard that anyone can roll on their own domain (like amp.reddit.com), or host on a certified CDN (like Cloudflare) to get the icon in search results. Bing, Yandex, etc. can add icons or carousels in their results too if they wanted to.
  - vatueil 8y ago
    In fact, Bing does have a news carousel with AMP icons and their own AMP cache. Microsoft has long used AMP and their support is increasing: - https://blogs.bing.com/search/September-2016/bing-app-joins-the-amp-open-source-effort https://blogs.bing.com/search/September-2016/bing-app-joins-... - https://blogs.bing.com/Webmaster-Blog/September-2018/Introducing-Bing-AMP-viewer-and-Bing-AMP-cache https://blogs.bing.com/Webmaster-Blog/September-2018/Introdu... - https://www.bing.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2019/05/09/google-creates-dedicated-placement-in-search-results-for-amp-stories-starting-with-travel-category/amp/ https://www.bing.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2019/05/09/google... Microsoft is part of the AMP Project's governance as well, along with Cloudflare, Twitter, and other members: https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-model-now-in-effect/ https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-... I wouldn't be surprised if AMP starts appearing in other Bing search results, or if they start supporting links to AMP pages other than news articles in their carousels (which when you get down to it is basically all this announcement is about).
dang 8y ago
It's actually not so common that comments are as throughly negative as that. Rather, there are lot of partially negative comments, the kind where the author often doesn't even realize they're coming across that way. When you get enough of those, fumes accumulate into an atmosphere of negativity that is hard to breathe in. I think this is what leads to an overall impression that sticks. Unfortunately, this kind of negativity routinely attracts upvotes, and its effect is amplified when it festers near the top of a thread. One thing we've begun doing more of as moderators is routinely downweighting indignant top subthreads to counteract this routine upvote-attraction effect. HN can't live by upvotes alone. There need to be countervailing mechanisms, or else indignation will dominate everywhere, making all threads the same.
- vatueil 8y ago
  > And yes, this topic is something of an exception. Is it, though? The top comments include ad hominem attacks on Google engineers, such as the replies to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19886610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19886610 I appreciate how you responded to the worst attack, at least, but the general viciousness is still disappointing. I don't work for Google, but I'm sure not eager to present a contrary view if I'm just going to be mislabeled a shill. Doubly so for anyone who does work at Google, I imagine. Possibly developers from other members of the AMP Project's governing committees as well, including Cloudflare, Twitter, and Microsoft: https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-model-now-in-effect/ https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-... I don't want criticism of AMP censored, but I don't think AMP should be an exception to the rule against negativity either.
  - dang 8y ago
    I meant that the stridently negative comments appear more often on this topic, as on a few others.
    - JoshMnem 8y ago
      > negative comments appear more often on this topic That's because the Web itself is under attack. Google is doing something completely unethical.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jimmaswell 8y ago

Does Google make its own content which gets preferentially treated based on AMP, or why is this anticompetitive?

bduerst 8y ago
It's not anticompetitive. It's a web standard that anyone can roll on their own domain (like amp.reddit.com), or host on a certified CDN (like Cloudflare) to get the icon in search results. Bing, Yandex, etc. can add icons or carousels in their results too if they wanted to.
- vatueil 8y ago
  In fact, Bing does have a news carousel with AMP icons and their own AMP cache. Microsoft has long used AMP and their support is increasing: - https://blogs.bing.com/search/September-2016/bing-app-joins-the-amp-open-source-effort https://blogs.bing.com/search/September-2016/bing-app-joins-... - https://blogs.bing.com/Webmaster-Blog/September-2018/Introducing-Bing-AMP-viewer-and-Bing-AMP-cache https://blogs.bing.com/Webmaster-Blog/September-2018/Introdu... - https://www.bing.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2019/05/09/google-creates-dedicated-placement-in-search-results-for-amp-stories-starting-with-travel-category/amp/ https://www.bing.com/amp/s/venturebeat.com/2019/05/09/google... Microsoft is part of the AMP Project's governance as well, along with Cloudflare, Twitter, and other members: https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-model-now-in-effect/ https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-... I wouldn't be surprised if AMP starts appearing in other Bing search results, or if they start supporting links to AMP pages other than news articles in their carousels (which when you get down to it is basically all this announcement is about).

dang 8y ago

It's actually not so common that comments are as throughly negative as that. Rather, there are lot of partially negative comments, the kind where the author often doesn't even realize they're coming across that way. When you get enough of those, fumes accumulate into an atmosphere of negativity that is hard to breathe in. I think this is what leads to an overall impression that sticks. Unfortunately, this kind of negativity routinely attracts upvotes, and its effect is amplified when it festers near the top of a thread. One thing we've begun doing more of as moderators is routinely downweighting indignant top subthreads to counteract this routine upvote-attraction effect. HN can't live by upvotes alone. There need to be countervailing mechanisms, or else indignation will dominate everywhere, making all threads the same.

vatueil 8y ago
> And yes, this topic is something of an exception. Is it, though? The top comments include ad hominem attacks on Google engineers, such as the replies to: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19886610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19886610 I appreciate how you responded to the worst attack, at least, but the general viciousness is still disappointing. I don't work for Google, but I'm sure not eager to present a contrary view if I'm just going to be mislabeled a shill. Doubly so for anyone who does work at Google, I imagine. Possibly developers from other members of the AMP Project's governing committees as well, including Cloudflare, Twitter, and Microsoft: https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-model-now-in-effect/ https://blog.amp.dev/2018/11/30/amp-projects-new-governance-... I don't want criticism of AMP censored, but I don't think AMP should be an exception to the rule against negativity either.
- dang 8y ago
  I meant that the stridently negative comments appear more often on this topic, as on a few others.
  - JoshMnem 8y ago
    > negative comments appear more often on this topic That's because the Web itself is under attack. Google is doing something completely unethical.