12 ms·

Encrypting backups is more-or-less essential for many types of data – but you absolutely need to know what is at stake (complete data loss) and how to mitigate

by dpwm 7y ago

Encrypting backups is more-or-less essential for many types of data – but you absolutely need to know what is at stake (complete data loss) and how to mitigate that (redundant hard-copies of keys stored securely both on- and off-site).

LoSboccacc 7y ago
> stored securely print the keys and give them to the cfo to store as asset, they have the systems in place to keep paper around for decades.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  Do you really want finance involved in operational chores as mundane as restoring backups? I see no reason for this, whoever is head of the department responsible for disaster recovery should just stick a backup printout of the keys in a local safe deposit box and get the right names on the account.
  - LoSboccacc 7y ago
    and who has the keys to that deposit? it's key all the way down. unless you are finance. never saw finance having their document storage delegated to a third party. it's their nature. that and legal, but since the master key is quite like a title to your data, finance made more sense.
  - Xylakant 7y ago
    Why not hand a printout to finance? It’s a last-ditch safety anchor in case everything else fails. Keep another copy for day-to-day operations in digital form. Nobody wants to type a 4096 bit key for every backup restore. But if millions are at stake, motivation to do so will rise tremendously.
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      I already said it's a backup copy of the key, obviously nobody is expected to type in from a printout in day-to-day operations. Our experiences must differ substantially here. I've worked at a few startups over the past two decades, and I would not trust any of the finance people from any of those companies to practice good operational security or be reliably available as a cog in a critical real-time operational path. They were consistently the kinds of people who would treat a locked filing cabinet behind a locked office door as the height of security, and in many cases left important private documents like checks revealing salaries completely insecure, face down on recipients unattended desks. They have often been the staff least reliably in the office, and least accessible at any given moment - especially after hours or on weekends. In my view it's just exposing the key to more risk of getting left out or forgotten in a poorly secured, often unattended filing cabinet behind trivially picked locks. Just to make it available through someone frequently absent on vacation. Good thing the security will likely suck, because you'll probably have to pick those locks when you need the copy and the CFO is skiing down a mountain. This is an issue for the department in charge of performing backups and restores. They will already have access to the key to do the job, and they need to be accessible in times of crisis. Why wouldn't the COO be the right person if operations is in charge of disaster recovery? It's their ass on the line when they can't do a restore on the weekend. The CFO and the entire finance department has zero expectation of being available after hours or on holidays.
  - dagw 7y ago
    Do you really want finance involved in operational chores as mundane as restoring backups? Not as a day to day occurrence. But as a last line of defence, absolutely. No other department has better routines in place to keep papers safe and secure for years through rounds of layoffs, restructurings, buyouts and everything else a company might go through.
- mamon 7y ago
  Why not just burn them on the CD? This way they are safe from hacker's attacks, and still in the digital form. There are special types of CDs that will last decades. There even is such thing as "1000 years dvd" :)
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    Those special optical discs are traditionally pressed and gold sputtered. Burnable discs are not suitable for long term archives.
    - gtyras2mrs 7y ago
      M-DISC claims a 1000 year lifespan. LG has some consumer writers that support M-DISC I believe. There are Sony BD-XL 128GB discs that claim 50 years of shelf life - however I'm not sure if they are suitable for archives. However as long as they are regularly tested - they could be decent enough for cold-storage. https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ataj1o/upping_the_optical_ante_sonys_128gb_quad_layer/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ataj1o/upping_...
  - kakwa_ 7y ago
    Paper is proven to last a few hundred years without issues, if stored properly, and we know all the kinks of storing it properly. It's easy to read, contrary to a DVD (you need a DVD drive). It's also cheap. Why make things complex when they could be simple.

by dpwm 7y ago

LoSboccacc 7y ago

> stored securely print the keys and give them to the cfo to store as asset, they have the systems in place to keep paper around for decades.

newnewpdro 7y ago
Do you really want finance involved in operational chores as mundane as restoring backups? I see no reason for this, whoever is head of the department responsible for disaster recovery should just stick a backup printout of the keys in a local safe deposit box and get the right names on the account.
- LoSboccacc 7y ago
  and who has the keys to that deposit? it's key all the way down. unless you are finance. never saw finance having their document storage delegated to a third party. it's their nature. that and legal, but since the master key is quite like a title to your data, finance made more sense.
- Xylakant 7y ago
  Why not hand a printout to finance? It’s a last-ditch safety anchor in case everything else fails. Keep another copy for day-to-day operations in digital form. Nobody wants to type a 4096 bit key for every backup restore. But if millions are at stake, motivation to do so will rise tremendously.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    I already said it's a backup copy of the key, obviously nobody is expected to type in from a printout in day-to-day operations. Our experiences must differ substantially here. I've worked at a few startups over the past two decades, and I would not trust any of the finance people from any of those companies to practice good operational security or be reliably available as a cog in a critical real-time operational path. They were consistently the kinds of people who would treat a locked filing cabinet behind a locked office door as the height of security, and in many cases left important private documents like checks revealing salaries completely insecure, face down on recipients unattended desks. They have often been the staff least reliably in the office, and least accessible at any given moment - especially after hours or on weekends. In my view it's just exposing the key to more risk of getting left out or forgotten in a poorly secured, often unattended filing cabinet behind trivially picked locks. Just to make it available through someone frequently absent on vacation. Good thing the security will likely suck, because you'll probably have to pick those locks when you need the copy and the CFO is skiing down a mountain. This is an issue for the department in charge of performing backups and restores. They will already have access to the key to do the job, and they need to be accessible in times of crisis. Why wouldn't the COO be the right person if operations is in charge of disaster recovery? It's their ass on the line when they can't do a restore on the weekend. The CFO and the entire finance department has zero expectation of being available after hours or on holidays.
- dagw 7y ago
  Do you really want finance involved in operational chores as mundane as restoring backups? Not as a day to day occurrence. But as a last line of defence, absolutely. No other department has better routines in place to keep papers safe and secure for years through rounds of layoffs, restructurings, buyouts and everything else a company might go through.
mamon 7y ago
Why not just burn them on the CD? This way they are safe from hacker's attacks, and still in the digital form. There are special types of CDs that will last decades. There even is such thing as "1000 years dvd" :)
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Those special optical discs are traditionally pressed and gold sputtered. Burnable discs are not suitable for long term archives.
  - gtyras2mrs 7y ago
    M-DISC claims a 1000 year lifespan. LG has some consumer writers that support M-DISC I believe. There are Sony BD-XL 128GB discs that claim 50 years of shelf life - however I'm not sure if they are suitable for archives. However as long as they are regularly tested - they could be decent enough for cold-storage. https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ataj1o/upping_the_optical_ante_sonys_128gb_quad_layer/ https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/ataj1o/upping_...
- kakwa_ 7y ago
  Paper is proven to last a few hundred years without issues, if stored properly, and we know all the kinks of storing it properly. It's easy to read, contrary to a DVD (you need a DVD drive). It's also cheap. Why make things complex when they could be simple.