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I think you misunderstand me. I do not learn exactly enough to get things done. That would be impossible. If I am asked to program a web app in PHP, I would stu

I think you misunderstand me. I do not learn exactly enough to get things done. That would be impossible. If I am asked to program a web app in PHP, I would study PHP, Databases, Web server configurations, and have enough knowledge to develop a web app. I would not start by studying design patterns, software modelling techniques and abstract functional programming. That's the difference between self learning and structured learning - most of the time people learn things specific to the topic they are interested in. If you are trying to claim otherwise, then your worldview is deeply flawed.

sah 18y ago
As a self-taught hacker, this just isn't true of me. I'm constantly reading about things that I have no immediate use for. In fact, one of the reasons I dropped out of my CS undergrad program was that I felt like its focus was too narrow.
- maxklein 18y ago
  So what stopped you from absorbing all of the narrow focus and then discovering more by reading on the side?
  - sah 18y ago
    There's nothing wrong with doing things that way. I know a bunch of smart people who did that. But if you're going to be teaching yourself on the side anyway, part of the value of being in school in the first place is reduced. Depending on your financial situation, it might make sense to just teach yourself full-time, or to do your reading on the side while working. I hated school. After a while I decided that I was better off without it. Ten years later, I still feel that way.
LPTS 18y ago
(I don't mean to sound harsh on you, you sound smart and what I wrote has the wrong tone.) "most of the time people learn things specific to the topic they are interested in." Your structure is wrong. It's not most of the time all people. It's most of the people all the time. An autodidactic person (admittedly rare and an outlier) will have already studied design patterns or whatever, because they read obsessively and learn best that way. I'm not trying to claim most people don't work that way. I'm saying there is a group of outliers that has both an ability to learn way better and faster than school can teach, and who dropout. These outliers are both highly desirable employees and cast off by the system. I think that normal people are projecting their own inability to self teach well at a college level onto the freaks who have this ability. If you think there isn't a group of outliers who is better off self teaching, as able as any PHD's, and who drop out or don't attend school because it is stifling to their natural urge to learn, your worldview is excluding a lot of the most talented and creative people on the planet.
- elai 18y ago
  Whats so freaky about teaching yourself?! Learning college level material isn't some mystical magical thing that you need the professor who holds the keys to teach you! Unless they are the only repository of information and no textbook exists to learn the material. Once you start understanding the vocab (and stop wasting your time by not reading the best books for your topic) it's just like anything else. Hopefully you can find a professor/writer who isn't horrible at writing and learned less is more. If not, you'll figure it out.

sah 18y ago

As a self-taught hacker, this just isn't true of me. I'm constantly reading about things that I have no immediate use for. In fact, one of the reasons I dropped out of my CS undergrad program was that I felt like its focus was too narrow.

maxklein 18y ago
So what stopped you from absorbing all of the narrow focus and then discovering more by reading on the side?
- sah 18y ago
  There's nothing wrong with doing things that way. I know a bunch of smart people who did that. But if you're going to be teaching yourself on the side anyway, part of the value of being in school in the first place is reduced. Depending on your financial situation, it might make sense to just teach yourself full-time, or to do your reading on the side while working. I hated school. After a while I decided that I was better off without it. Ten years later, I still feel that way.

LPTS 18y ago

(I don't mean to sound harsh on you, you sound smart and what I wrote has the wrong tone.) "most of the time people learn things specific to the topic they are interested in." Your structure is wrong. It's not most of the time all people. It's most of the people all the time. An autodidactic person (admittedly rare and an outlier) will have already studied design patterns or whatever, because they read obsessively and learn best that way. I'm not trying to claim most people don't work that way. I'm saying there is a group of outliers that has both an ability to learn way better and faster than school can teach, and who dropout. These outliers are both highly desirable employees and cast off by the system. I think that normal people are projecting their own inability to self teach well at a college level onto the freaks who have this ability. If you think there isn't a group of outliers who is better off self teaching, as able as any PHD's, and who drop out or don't attend school because it is stifling to their natural urge to learn, your worldview is excluding a lot of the most talented and creative people on the planet.

elai 18y ago
Whats so freaky about teaching yourself?! Learning college level material isn't some mystical magical thing that you need the professor who holds the keys to teach you! Unless they are the only repository of information and no textbook exists to learn the material. Once you start understanding the vocab (and stop wasting your time by not reading the best books for your topic) it's just like anything else. Hopefully you can find a professor/writer who isn't horrible at writing and learned less is more. If not, you'll figure it out.