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The thing is this: There are some things that ones does not know that one does not know. And only in a formal teaching environment is one introduced to these to

The thing is this: There are some things that ones does not know that one does not know. And only in a formal teaching environment is one introduced to these topics. Most schools give a healthy dose of general knowledge together with the domain specific knowledge. And most self learners tend to stick to domain specific topics. I don't know how self taught you are, but 100% of my income comes from things I learned myself and applied myself. I spent $0 to learn those things, and now I make, well, a fair bit more than $0. In spite of all I learned by myself, when I went back to school, I discovered things I did not even know where useful to me. I'm not saying that a person is flawed because he is not aware of some specific area. He just is not aware of it because it's not something he directly requires. What Web programmer needs to know about register transfers? Well, if he went to do a CS degree, this knowledge would be forced on him, making him a better programmer in general! Civilisation only exists because of the institution of school. Don't bash it, it's a very good thing.

LPTS 18y ago
I went to college and was a semester away from graduating. Here is my education history. I studied music and philosophy not computers. Anyway I was self taught enough that in my senior year contemporary philosophy of mind class (which I studied independently because it was my interest before the class was offered), the professor asked me to proofread and critique the final rather then take it. I never took notes but I could correct other peoples notes from memory. I also taught myself composition and music theory up to the 400 level before dropping out of school. In high school, I got perfect scores on AP tests for classes I skipped almost every day (I got 15 college english credits for a class I failed). I did knowledge bows and was the knowledge bowl coaches TA, where he gave me old questions and encyclopedias on various topics and we got 2nd at state. (we were a poor public school). I had more AP credits then the saludictorian and valedictorian but I sat in the back with the pregnant girls and delinquents at graduation. I don't think I learned things from class, and think all that was self taught. I always got in trouble for reading ahead or hiding a book. School is, in general, good. But for certain bright people, putting them like that in classes with people of normal intelligence is exactly like putting normal kids in classes with severely mentally disabled kids, and limiting the normal kids potential to the mentally disabled kids potential. On balance school is good, but there is a class of people for whom school is devastatingly confining and intellectually restricting. Depending on early experiences, these people are going to hate school early, become self taught college dropouts or never go to college (who can blame them?) and teach themselves skills like this guy is saying. Because these people's dropout status is related to their high intelligence, excluding them with barriers based on degrees is a great way to protecting yourself from some of the most creative, intelligent, original thinkers our planet has to offer.
- matthewking 18y ago
  Because these people's dropout status is related to their high intelligence, excluding them with barriers based on degrees is a great way to protecting yourself from some of the most creative, intelligent, original thinkers our planet has to offer. Thank you LPTS, that's pretty much exactly what I wanted to say. A lot of people have gone off on tangents discussing the merits of a degree, where I actually agree with them for the most part. The point I was actually trying to make, you've conveyed very well. Don't judge our intelligence or ability on such a unrelated subject as having a degree or not. Hopefully a few people will have read this thread who will be employing in the future, and the information contained may influence their decision when they're deciding to write the "Degree required" line on their job advert.
- maxklein 18y ago
  I believe in people who execute. The tasks you have to do in a standard job are for the most part VERY similar to those in school. Little creativity is required, just follow the rules and deliver. People who cannot finish a college degree may be geniuses, but what use is a genius to a big company if the genius never finishes a project but gets bored after a few weeks? University is a free place. Come and go as you please, just write the exams. Those geniuses should have no problem doing that, no? A company needs a good mix of the following: 1. Slow and steady worker 2. Charming and friendly people 3. People with clever ideas who know how to explain their ideas properly Some helter skelter genius with strong opinions and a low ability to complete projects is exactly the wrong type of person for a company. And the right kind of person to start an own business.
  - gnaritas 18y ago
    It's a false assumption that not going to college means a person can't finish something. Fact is, MOST people don't go to college and many of them don't do it for financial or family reasons. College isn't like high school, it's not available to everyone for free. Many many smart people skip college and that's not going to change any time soon.
    - 18y ago
Hexstream 18y ago
"only in a formal teaching environment is one introduced to these topics." That looks like dangerous thinking to me. I guess it's conforting to think that what you never heard of in your "formal teaching environment" doesn't exist or doesn't matter. School can only expose so many topics to you. It can go deeper than necessary in some topics that won't be relevant to you and completely ignore others that would be.

LPTS 18y ago

I went to college and was a semester away from graduating. Here is my education history. I studied music and philosophy not computers. Anyway I was self taught enough that in my senior year contemporary philosophy of mind class (which I studied independently because it was my interest before the class was offered), the professor asked me to proofread and critique the final rather then take it. I never took notes but I could correct other peoples notes from memory. I also taught myself composition and music theory up to the 400 level before dropping out of school. In high school, I got perfect scores on AP tests for classes I skipped almost every day (I got 15 college english credits for a class I failed). I did knowledge bows and was the knowledge bowl coaches TA, where he gave me old questions and encyclopedias on various topics and we got 2nd at state. (we were a poor public school). I had more AP credits then the saludictorian and valedictorian but I sat in the back with the pregnant girls and delinquents at graduation. I don't think I learned things from class, and think all that was self taught. I always got in trouble for reading ahead or hiding a book. School is, in general, good. But for certain bright people, putting them like that in classes with people of normal intelligence is exactly like putting normal kids in classes with severely mentally disabled kids, and limiting the normal kids potential to the mentally disabled kids potential. On balance school is good, but there is a class of people for whom school is devastatingly confining and intellectually restricting. Depending on early experiences, these people are going to hate school early, become self taught college dropouts or never go to college (who can blame them?) and teach themselves skills like this guy is saying. Because these people's dropout status is related to their high intelligence, excluding them with barriers based on degrees is a great way to protecting yourself from some of the most creative, intelligent, original thinkers our planet has to offer.

matthewking 18y ago
Because these people's dropout status is related to their high intelligence, excluding them with barriers based on degrees is a great way to protecting yourself from some of the most creative, intelligent, original thinkers our planet has to offer. Thank you LPTS, that's pretty much exactly what I wanted to say. A lot of people have gone off on tangents discussing the merits of a degree, where I actually agree with them for the most part. The point I was actually trying to make, you've conveyed very well. Don't judge our intelligence or ability on such a unrelated subject as having a degree or not. Hopefully a few people will have read this thread who will be employing in the future, and the information contained may influence their decision when they're deciding to write the "Degree required" line on their job advert.
maxklein 18y ago
I believe in people who execute. The tasks you have to do in a standard job are for the most part VERY similar to those in school. Little creativity is required, just follow the rules and deliver. People who cannot finish a college degree may be geniuses, but what use is a genius to a big company if the genius never finishes a project but gets bored after a few weeks? University is a free place. Come and go as you please, just write the exams. Those geniuses should have no problem doing that, no? A company needs a good mix of the following: 1. Slow and steady worker 2. Charming and friendly people 3. People with clever ideas who know how to explain their ideas properly Some helter skelter genius with strong opinions and a low ability to complete projects is exactly the wrong type of person for a company. And the right kind of person to start an own business.
- gnaritas 18y ago
  It's a false assumption that not going to college means a person can't finish something. Fact is, MOST people don't go to college and many of them don't do it for financial or family reasons. College isn't like high school, it's not available to everyone for free. Many many smart people skip college and that's not going to change any time soon.
  - 18y ago

Hexstream 18y ago

"only in a formal teaching environment is one introduced to these topics." That looks like dangerous thinking to me. I guess it's conforting to think that what you never heard of in your "formal teaching environment" doesn't exist or doesn't matter. School can only expose so many topics to you. It can go deeper than necessary in some topics that won't be relevant to you and completely ignore others that would be.