4 ms·

Give me a break, some people are pro union, companies are not. pro union folks campaign to get folks to join, companies campaign to stop that. Delta didn't sa

Give me a break, some people are pro union, companies are not. pro union folks campaign to get folks to join, companies campaign to stop that. Delta didn't say anything along the line of if you join you will loose your job or some subtle threat. They said spending $700 on video game sounds more fun than union dues. I personally think it's funny. If anyone is going to be swayed by that, then that person probably shouldn't join a union or can just as easily be swayed by a union with something silly and more catchy than Delta's campaign.

axiom92 7y ago
Makes a lot of sense. I don't understand why you're being downvoted.
thesagan 7y ago
People shouldn't be swayed by that, and in my opinion, Delta shouldn't put it out there, either. Delta is in a much stronger position than most of its employees. The fact Delta makes an appeal on that level is disappointing to me. There's a common sentiment that fools should be taken as such. I don't subscribe to it, for the most part. I think that's brutish business.
- ryandrake 7y ago
  Not that it excuses Delta's terrible behavior but other companies also put out anti-union propaganda [1] [2] [3] and it's also terrible behavior. 1: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/how-walmart-convinces-its-employees-not-to-unionize/395051/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/how-wal... 2: https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2018/09/27/amazons-anti-union-training-strategy-revealed-in-leaked-video/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2018/09/27/amazons-... 3: https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/target-anti-union-video-cheesy-but-effective https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/target-anti...
gowld 7y ago
Selling out a citizen's responsibility to engage in government in exchange for a bit of cash has a sordid history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine
JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
Comments like this make me wonder what the economic philosophies of the average HN commenter is. I see a lot of things that seem pretty pro-capitalist, neo-liberal, etcetera. But I've always viewed the bulk of who's visiting and viewing to be mostly working, middle, or upper middle class. There's remarkably few people who benefit from the no-union position (even if Delta's messaging was legal). Of course your company is going to protect its own interests, but I'm surprised how frequently I see pro-employer comments at the top, rather than pro-worker. Personally, I dis-like Delta's messaging because it equates one of the last vestiges we have of worker's rights -- the union -- to a video game console. It's absolutely insulting to the worker, to suggest the people that work for you are dumb enough to believe that argument. It's fine for the employer to have an opinion on unions, but this is tasteless.
- seibelj 7y ago
  A lot of people on HN are entrepreneurial, and have started their own businesses or have worked at a small one and understand the perspective of management. I do not want employees, no matter how low level, to view their employers antagonistically. Unions foster a sense of antagonism and inflexibility, which makes hard but necessary decisions more difficult. Ultimately it will kill the business, which helps no one.
  - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    Do unions practically matter to entrepreneurs? You'd might be better served worrying about whether your business will crash and burn (as most do in the first N years). Once you have a thousand people, then really think of the implications of unions. To have a dozen people and worrying about your totally-gonna-happen-exponential-growth and the consequential unionization seems like a short-sighted use of limited hours you have in ensuring your startup's success.
    - seibelj 7y ago
      I’m saying you get an appreciation for management. You can steal the golden goose’s eggs for only so long, which is part of the reason why Delta acquired the unionized company in the first place - it was weak.
norgie 7y ago
You're implying that unions and companies have equal power over the employees, when this is pretty obviously not the case.
jgwil2 7y ago
It's the generally condescending tone of the posters that people are reacting to most strongly, I would imagine.

axiom92 7y ago

Makes a lot of sense. I don't understand why you're being downvoted.

thesagan 7y ago

People shouldn't be swayed by that, and in my opinion, Delta shouldn't put it out there, either. Delta is in a much stronger position than most of its employees. The fact Delta makes an appeal on that level is disappointing to me. There's a common sentiment that fools should be taken as such. I don't subscribe to it, for the most part. I think that's brutish business.

ryandrake 7y ago
Not that it excuses Delta's terrible behavior but other companies also put out anti-union propaganda [1] [2] [3] and it's also terrible behavior. 1: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/how-walmart-convinces-its-employees-not-to-unionize/395051/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/how-wal... 2: https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2018/09/27/amazons-anti-union-training-strategy-revealed-in-leaked-video/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2018/09/27/amazons-... 3: https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/target-anti-union-video-cheesy-but-effective https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/target-anti...

gowld 7y ago

Selling out a citizen's responsibility to engage in government in exchange for a bit of cash has a sordid history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago

Comments like this make me wonder what the economic philosophies of the average HN commenter is. I see a lot of things that seem pretty pro-capitalist, neo-liberal, etcetera. But I've always viewed the bulk of who's visiting and viewing to be mostly working, middle, or upper middle class. There's remarkably few people who benefit from the no-union position (even if Delta's messaging was legal). Of course your company is going to protect its own interests, but I'm surprised how frequently I see pro-employer comments at the top, rather than pro-worker. Personally, I dis-like Delta's messaging because it equates one of the last vestiges we have of worker's rights -- the union -- to a video game console. It's absolutely insulting to the worker, to suggest the people that work for you are dumb enough to believe that argument. It's fine for the employer to have an opinion on unions, but this is tasteless.

seibelj 7y ago
A lot of people on HN are entrepreneurial, and have started their own businesses or have worked at a small one and understand the perspective of management. I do not want employees, no matter how low level, to view their employers antagonistically. Unions foster a sense of antagonism and inflexibility, which makes hard but necessary decisions more difficult. Ultimately it will kill the business, which helps no one.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  Do unions practically matter to entrepreneurs? You'd might be better served worrying about whether your business will crash and burn (as most do in the first N years). Once you have a thousand people, then really think of the implications of unions. To have a dozen people and worrying about your totally-gonna-happen-exponential-growth and the consequential unionization seems like a short-sighted use of limited hours you have in ensuring your startup's success.
  - seibelj 7y ago
    I’m saying you get an appreciation for management. You can steal the golden goose’s eggs for only so long, which is part of the reason why Delta acquired the unionized company in the first place - it was weak.

norgie 7y ago

You're implying that unions and companies have equal power over the employees, when this is pretty obviously not the case.

jgwil2 7y ago

It's the generally condescending tone of the posters that people are reacting to most strongly, I would imagine.