4 ms·

Even if it does, we know full well from decades of medical and aerospace disaster research that these problems can only be treated if they are handled as system

Even if it does, we know full well from decades of medical and aerospace disaster research that these problems can only be treated if they are handled as systemic and non-malicious. Punishing these people will make it harder to learn from what happened here, and make it harder to prevent these sorts of disasters in the future. We know people act irrationally or apathetically in disasters. The only way to fix it is to design systems around peoples' inherent weaknesses. You can't go around punishing these people after the fact, we need to understand why they acted how they did and how we can stop it from happening in the future.

saalweachter 7y ago
> We know people act irrationally or apathetically in disasters. This, times a million. Brains don't work right sometimes, and you fixate on weird things, shut down, or fall into patterns that aren't useful in the situation in question. Afterwards, you'll be surprised by your behavior, shocked, embarrassed, and ashamed. Sometimes your behavior will seem brave to an outside observer, sometimes it will seem shameful, sometimes inane, but it's the same I-don't-understand-what's-happening disaster fugue state from the inside while it's happening. I'd lay odds that for most of those people getting off the plane, it wasn't even any sort of "I need my stuff! It might get damaged!" thinking. From the inside of their head, they were getting off the airplane. When you get off the airplane, you put on your coat and grab your bag. What else would you do? You never leave your stuff on the airplane. When you are in a disaster and your brain shuts down, you fall into that sort of routine, even if it is the wrong thing to do in that situation.
Faark 7y ago
> we need to understand why they acted how they did and how we can stop it from happening in the future. I agree, but a deterrent might be part of a strategy to improve passengers behavior in such situations. "In case of evac, leave your bags or you'll get sued" might help a few people remember this line in the safety video. I'd obviously only advocate for something like this if studies show it to be effective.
- unreal37 7y ago
  I doubt you'll find any studies that show this to be effective. And, arresting someone who just survived a plane crash who barely escaped a situation they didn't cause with their life just because they brought their purse with them is going to get ugly really fast. I agree, the solution is to design better evacuation systems. That might include preventing people from bringing carry on luggage larger than a purse or briefcase.
  - lb0 7y ago
    I don't get all this posts defending the (and I want to fully repeat the articles original wording) STUPID behavior of these people. Yes agreed, if it really didn't delay no blame for causing any loss of life no blame should have been put on them, media coming too quick to lurid headlines is a common bad thing, bad journalism, true. But this does not matter at all here WTF? Even if this behavior did not cause any death, or delay, it is just outright stupid. It still risked other passenger's lives (no one can judge in this situation by "looking at the aisle" if it is save trying to get your luggage or not), it still risked hurting other people during evacuation, it still risked damaging the slide, it still ignored the safety instructions and the stewardess shouting at the people to get the fuck out, it still just is an ultra egoistic asshole move trying to save your belongings. And btw I also don't get the defense of "people act irrationally or apathetically in disasters". Your most basic natural instinct is to flee a life endangering situation, the second thing that can happen is an apathetic reaction, but apathetic reaction != trying to save your belongings while a plane is burning. Anyone who tries to fetch and carry their luggage while the stewardess is shouting at you to get out is just trying to save their very belongings, and not reacting irrational or apathetic. Unfortunately stupidity and egoism is also human nature, but still it is just this and not irrationality or apathy, this behavior is not defendable and just outright stupid. I also don't get the downplay of "people just carrying a purse"... please watch the footage, you can see a roll-aboard.

saalweachter 7y ago

> We know people act irrationally or apathetically in disasters. This, times a million. Brains don't work right sometimes, and you fixate on weird things, shut down, or fall into patterns that aren't useful in the situation in question. Afterwards, you'll be surprised by your behavior, shocked, embarrassed, and ashamed. Sometimes your behavior will seem brave to an outside observer, sometimes it will seem shameful, sometimes inane, but it's the same I-don't-understand-what's-happening disaster fugue state from the inside while it's happening. I'd lay odds that for most of those people getting off the plane, it wasn't even any sort of "I need my stuff! It might get damaged!" thinking. From the inside of their head, they were getting off the airplane. When you get off the airplane, you put on your coat and grab your bag. What else would you do? You never leave your stuff on the airplane. When you are in a disaster and your brain shuts down, you fall into that sort of routine, even if it is the wrong thing to do in that situation.

Faark 7y ago

> we need to understand why they acted how they did and how we can stop it from happening in the future. I agree, but a deterrent might be part of a strategy to improve passengers behavior in such situations. "In case of evac, leave your bags or you'll get sued" might help a few people remember this line in the safety video. I'd obviously only advocate for something like this if studies show it to be effective.

unreal37 7y ago
I doubt you'll find any studies that show this to be effective. And, arresting someone who just survived a plane crash who barely escaped a situation they didn't cause with their life just because they brought their purse with them is going to get ugly really fast. I agree, the solution is to design better evacuation systems. That might include preventing people from bringing carry on luggage larger than a purse or briefcase.
- lb0 7y ago
  I don't get all this posts defending the (and I want to fully repeat the articles original wording) STUPID behavior of these people. Yes agreed, if it really didn't delay no blame for causing any loss of life no blame should have been put on them, media coming too quick to lurid headlines is a common bad thing, bad journalism, true. But this does not matter at all here WTF? Even if this behavior did not cause any death, or delay, it is just outright stupid. It still risked other passenger's lives (no one can judge in this situation by "looking at the aisle" if it is save trying to get your luggage or not), it still risked hurting other people during evacuation, it still risked damaging the slide, it still ignored the safety instructions and the stewardess shouting at the people to get the fuck out, it still just is an ultra egoistic asshole move trying to save your belongings. And btw I also don't get the defense of "people act irrationally or apathetically in disasters". Your most basic natural instinct is to flee a life endangering situation, the second thing that can happen is an apathetic reaction, but apathetic reaction != trying to save your belongings while a plane is burning. Anyone who tries to fetch and carry their luggage while the stewardess is shouting at you to get out is just trying to save their very belongings, and not reacting irrational or apathetic. Unfortunately stupidity and egoism is also human nature, but still it is just this and not irrationality or apathy, this behavior is not defendable and just outright stupid. I also don't get the downplay of "people just carrying a purse"... please watch the footage, you can see a roll-aboard.