6 ms·

Sorry, but what should one do with posts that are just blatantly false?

by Fins 7y ago

zaroth 7y ago
Citations, not personal attacks. For example, as to the claim it is the safest production car ever made, you could cite NHTSA finding the Tesla Model 3 had the best combined VSS (Vehicle Safety Score) ever tested. [1] Regarding remote maintenance, the latest firmware does add the capability to notify the operator of an issue and pre-orders parts to your home service center. [2] I can't speak to drive train specifically, although Tesla has stated they design and build to a 1,000,000 mile standard. Longevity and low maintenance cost is a huge factor for Tesla buyers. A Model S driven for Tesloop logged over 400,000 miles and ended up with just a $0.05/mile maintenance cost. [3] Battery reliability is much higher than everyone expected, and owner surveys of older Model S batteries show 90%+ capacity after 160,000 miles. [4] Efficiency is easy to demonstrate that Tesla is way ahead of the pack. In my Tesla Model 3 AWD with 19" rims I get ~220Wh/mile, and the RWD version with 18" rims is more efficient than that. The only more efficient EV I know of is the Ionic, which has a 28kWh battery and 3,100 lbs curb weight allows it to beat the Tesla Model 3 at 50kWh battery and 3,552 lbs by 4% in terms of mpge, but has 100 miles less range. The Tesla Supercharger network is one of a kind. The V3 Supercharger update brings the fastest production charging in the world. The software ecosystem, presumably meaning OTA updates, have brought innumerable software features, and even hardware performance upgrades (braking and acceleration) in the last several months. My son also really appreciates the new Atari games that keep coming out. You can debate whether you think AutoPilot is the best driver assistance package available, but it is far from "blatantly false". AutoPilot takes me to work and back every day with very little manual input. It makes a heavy traffic commute totally stress free. I do look out the window while I have it engaged though, not watching a movie on my phone or tablet. [1] - https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=NHTSA-2017-0037-0041&attachmentNumber=1&contentType=excel12book https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=NHTSA... [2] - https://electrek.co/2019/05/06/tesla-diagnose-pre-order-parts-service/ https://electrek.co/2019/05/06/tesla-diagnose-pre-order-part... [3] - https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2019/2/6/tesloops-high-mileage-teslas https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2019/2/6/tesloops-high-mileage-... [4] - https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90-capacity-after-160000-miles-may-last-for-500000-miles/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90...
- Fins 7y ago
  I thought that the claim that Tesla is the safest car has been thoroughly debunked long ago. It's safer than an average car on the road, but not than a car of the same age and price. Not to mention that your average car does not try to actively kill you by driving into large, stationary objects. Besides, I have no qualms with claims about the drivetrain, Superchargers, and other things that might well make Tesla the best EV out there. It's the claims that Tesla compares with.. well, with anything, really, in build quality, that it has better interior or ergonomics , or that "Autopilot" is the best driver assistance system that really raise eyebrows. I can't comprehend what kind of thinking makes one say that a touchscreen interface in a moving vehicle could possibly be either more convenient or safer than dedicated buttons. And specifically in TM3, what could possibly make them put all output (mind you, in a car that you still have to drive yourself) off to the side?!
  - zaroth 7y ago
    Passenger EVs by nature of their bigger forward crumple zones, should be safer than an ICE passenger vehicle. Tesla Model 3 is particularly safe when it comes to forward collision and rollover. They've also done as good a job as anyone with side-impact and things like partially overlapping front impact [1]. So it adds up to substantiating the "safest" claim in terms of protecting you during an accident. Obviously it's better to avoid an accident entirely. As of last year Tesla drivers had traveled more than 1 billion miles under AutoPilot. Miles driven by AutoPilot continue to be significantly safer than non-AutoPilot miles [2] but the miles are not directly comparable (e.g. highway vs non-highway). An increasing number of my non-highway miles are driven on AutoPilot now though, as the system continues to improve. Tesla recently (as in two weeks ago) introduced additional active safety measures for accident avoidance [3], and there is even a recent video of AutoPilot avoiding a bunny in the road [4]. As far as the screen, maybe it's personal taste. I can tell you I love the touch-screen and I love how it is located in the car. I particularly enjoy that there's no screen right in front of me behind the steering wheel. I commented upthread that the feeling of driving, particular at night, with nothing but the road directly in front of you is almost surreal. All the most common functions (blinker, wiper, volume, cruise speed, skip track, voice command) are hard-wired, so there's never a need to take your hand off the wheel. To make more fine-grained adjustments (which I find you practically never need to do) the touch screen is so responsive I can do as fast as with a button or dial. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI [2] - https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autopilot-crashes-up-human-error-down-in-q1-2019 https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autop... [3] - https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners [4] - https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadkill-video/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadk...

Sorry, but what should one do with posts that are just blatantly false?

by Fins 7y ago

Sorry, but what should one do with posts that are just blatantly false?

Citations, not personal attacks. For example, as to the claim it is the safest production car ever made, you could cite NHTSA finding the Tesla Model 3 had the best combined VSS (Vehicle Safety Score) ever tested. [1] Regarding remote maintenance, the latest firmware does add the capability to notify the operator of an issue and pre-orders parts to your home service center. [2] I can't speak to drive train specifically, although Tesla has stated they design and build to a 1,000,000 mile standard. Longevity and low maintenance cost is a huge factor for Tesla buyers. A Model S driven for Tesloop logged over 400,000 miles and ended up with just a $0.05/mile maintenance cost. [3] Battery reliability is much higher than everyone expected, and owner surveys of older Model S batteries show 90%+ capacity after 160,000 miles. [4] Efficiency is easy to demonstrate that Tesla is way ahead of the pack. In my Tesla Model 3 AWD with 19" rims I get ~220Wh/mile, and the RWD version with 18" rims is more efficient than that. The only more efficient EV I know of is the Ionic, which has a 28kWh battery and 3,100 lbs curb weight allows it to beat the Tesla Model 3 at 50kWh battery and 3,552 lbs by 4% in terms of mpge, but has 100 miles less range. The Tesla Supercharger network is one of a kind. The V3 Supercharger update brings the fastest production charging in the world. The software ecosystem, presumably meaning OTA updates, have brought innumerable software features, and even hardware performance upgrades (braking and acceleration) in the last several months. My son also really appreciates the new Atari games that keep coming out. You can debate whether you think AutoPilot is the best driver assistance package available, but it is far from "blatantly false". AutoPilot takes me to work and back every day with very little manual input. It makes a heavy traffic commute totally stress free. I do look out the window while I have it engaged though, not watching a movie on my phone or tablet. [1] - https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=NHTSA-2017-0037-0041&attachmentNumber=1&contentType=excel12book https://www.regulations.gov/contentStreamer?documentId=NHTSA... [2] - https://electrek.co/2019/05/06/tesla-diagnose-pre-order-parts-service/ https://electrek.co/2019/05/06/tesla-diagnose-pre-order-part... [3] - https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2019/2/6/tesloops-high-mileage-teslas https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2019/2/6/tesloops-high-mileage-... [4] - https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90-capacity-after-160000-miles-may-last-for-500000-miles/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/16/tesla-batteries-have-90...

Fins 7y ago
I thought that the claim that Tesla is the safest car has been thoroughly debunked long ago. It's safer than an average car on the road, but not than a car of the same age and price. Not to mention that your average car does not try to actively kill you by driving into large, stationary objects. Besides, I have no qualms with claims about the drivetrain, Superchargers, and other things that might well make Tesla the best EV out there. It's the claims that Tesla compares with.. well, with anything, really, in build quality, that it has better interior or ergonomics , or that "Autopilot" is the best driver assistance system that really raise eyebrows. I can't comprehend what kind of thinking makes one say that a touchscreen interface in a moving vehicle could possibly be either more convenient or safer than dedicated buttons. And specifically in TM3, what could possibly make them put all output (mind you, in a car that you still have to drive yourself) off to the side?!
- zaroth 7y ago
  Passenger EVs by nature of their bigger forward crumple zones, should be safer than an ICE passenger vehicle. Tesla Model 3 is particularly safe when it comes to forward collision and rollover. They've also done as good a job as anyone with side-impact and things like partially overlapping front impact [1]. So it adds up to substantiating the "safest" claim in terms of protecting you during an accident. Obviously it's better to avoid an accident entirely. As of last year Tesla drivers had traveled more than 1 billion miles under AutoPilot. Miles driven by AutoPilot continue to be significantly safer than non-AutoPilot miles [2] but the miles are not directly comparable (e.g. highway vs non-highway). An increasing number of my non-highway miles are driven on AutoPilot now though, as the system continues to improve. Tesla recently (as in two weeks ago) introduced additional active safety measures for accident avoidance [3], and there is even a recent video of AutoPilot avoiding a bunny in the road [4]. As far as the screen, maybe it's personal taste. I can tell you I love the touch-screen and I love how it is located in the car. I particularly enjoy that there's no screen right in front of me behind the steering wheel. I commented upthread that the feeling of driving, particular at night, with nothing but the road directly in front of you is almost surreal. All the most common functions (blinker, wiper, volume, cruise speed, skip track, voice command) are hard-wired, so there's never a need to take your hand off the wheel. To make more fine-grained adjustments (which I find you practically never need to do) the touch screen is so responsive I can do as fast as with a button or dial. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcZkkGL85AI [2] - https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autopilot-crashes-up-human-error-down-in-q1-2019 https://www.thedrive.com/news/27356/frequency-of-tesla-autop... [3] - https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners https://www.tesla.com/blog/more-advanced-safety-tesla-owners [4] - https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadkill-video/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-saves-rabbit-roadk...