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Aside from the other feedback already given, time zones play a large factor in decisions like this. If developers from India run into a problem and you're half

Aside from the other feedback already given, time zones play a large factor in decisions like this. If developers from India run into a problem and you're half a world away, you usually don't hear about it until you come into work in the morning. They haven't made any progress due to being stuck, you help them out so they can continue, but they're done for the day. They come in the next morning, get stuck again, no work gets done, problem gets fixed, they come in the next day, and hopefully can continue working. Unless both parties are making themselves available 24/7, development cycles tend to go on forever.

rubinelli 7y ago
I've see cases where a whole team from Southeast Asia shifted work time so there was some overlap, but that also takes a toll.
- commandlinefan 7y ago
  That also runs into transportation problems - my understanding is that there are a lot of people without their own cars in India (especially dense places like Bangalore) who rely on public transportation which shuts down overnight there.
  - notacoward 7y ago
    Sometimes the transportation issues work in our (US) favor though. I felt kind of bad about doing meetings early my time, which was kind of on the late side in Bangalore, until I realized that practically everyone there worked on a late schedule to avoid traffic. Without that factor, there would have been no time convenient for everyone.
cableshaft 7y ago
Going through this right now. This is exactly what's been happening in for our team. It's stretched out development time so much because of it. Tasks that could be done in a couple days are taking over a week just because each back and forth exchange costing an extra day. Code reviews by themselves can take so long that sometimes I just make the last changes myself and check it in myself because we've run out of time.
- was_boring 7y ago
  I'm literally doing this right now. There are multiple bugs with the implementation, poor quality overall, but all my manager sees is the dollar signs. Somehow, they forgot it's already 2x overdue, still not feature complete, and the good developers we have are burning out trying to make up for their slack. It's a shame really.
  - netsectoday 7y ago
    This seems to be the script. Has anyone else NOT experienced this?
  - ebiester 7y ago
    It's your job to make sure your manager feels the pain. What is he doing to hold them to account? And what are you doing to quantify the amount of work your team is doing to mitigate the disaster? (It's truly a frustrating experience, and I empathize. I have a strong feeling the people who force these decisions should share in the pain.)
notacoward 7y ago
Totally this. I'm on the US east coast. At my last job, most of my colleagues were in Bangalore. Time zones made meetings a bit of a pain for everyone. Certainly nothing ad hoc, and even meetings planned well in advance were usually less than ideal. Even worse, the evening-to-morning "ping times" often slowed progress. That's bad when it's a code review that ends up taking weeks. It's terrible when it's debugging a customer issue. I have to say that certain cultural issues made all that worse. I did run into the "say yes but then do nothing" issue that other people had warned me about. Also, the team I worked with was super sensitive to hierarchy, who got to make decisions, who got credit for what, even who could talk to whom. This often led to people being offended, or to realizing that the "wrong" people had been involved in a discussion, requiring another round-the-world ping time or two to resolve. I saw multiple people forced out of the group because of these issues and have had lengthy discussions with a couple about how that happened (it turns out that just being too friendly with me is one thing that broke a local taboo), so I don't think it was a purely local phenomenon. I don't know how any of the cultural issues affect a single developer joining a team elsewhere, though. Perhaps people who've had a bad experience with an Indian team don't think about how an individual would be different. Perhaps they're just discriminating. But I'll bet time zones are a big part of it.
rgergewrgerg 7y ago
Agreed with this. However, I have a slightly unethical suggestion especially for freelancers. One of my friend did this. Open up a LLC in the US. You don't need to step a foot in the US to open LLC here. Get a bank account for LLC in the US. My friend did it via family connection but there are many lawyers who should be able to help international clients with this. Once you have LLC, it makes so much easier to get paid. Next step is to work mostly nights. And for unethical part, tell clients you are in South America. Indian developers have such a bad reputation that it is almost impossible to close. But by using American name and saying he is in South America, his close rate is about 50%.
- herodotus 7y ago
  It is not just a matter of ethics. I once had a colleague who suggested to me (in private), that I "adjust" a report I was giving to ensure a favourable outcome. At that moment, I realized that I could never trust the colleague again. And I never did. If you (OP) get caught with such a massive lie ("I live in South America") you reputation will be permanently damaged. Stay honest. Honestly.
  - netsharc 7y ago
    I wonder if you can lawyer it. Fly to South America, write in the e-mail "I write to you from Rio de Janeiro, and I'm available to work from 9 to 6 US east coast time". Technically... it's all honest.

rubinelli 7y ago

I've see cases where a whole team from Southeast Asia shifted work time so there was some overlap, but that also takes a toll.

commandlinefan 7y ago
That also runs into transportation problems - my understanding is that there are a lot of people without their own cars in India (especially dense places like Bangalore) who rely on public transportation which shuts down overnight there.
- notacoward 7y ago
  Sometimes the transportation issues work in our (US) favor though. I felt kind of bad about doing meetings early my time, which was kind of on the late side in Bangalore, until I realized that practically everyone there worked on a late schedule to avoid traffic. Without that factor, there would have been no time convenient for everyone.

cableshaft 7y ago

Going through this right now. This is exactly what's been happening in for our team. It's stretched out development time so much because of it. Tasks that could be done in a couple days are taking over a week just because each back and forth exchange costing an extra day. Code reviews by themselves can take so long that sometimes I just make the last changes myself and check it in myself because we've run out of time.

was_boring 7y ago
I'm literally doing this right now. There are multiple bugs with the implementation, poor quality overall, but all my manager sees is the dollar signs. Somehow, they forgot it's already 2x overdue, still not feature complete, and the good developers we have are burning out trying to make up for their slack. It's a shame really.
- netsectoday 7y ago
  This seems to be the script. Has anyone else NOT experienced this?
- ebiester 7y ago
  It's your job to make sure your manager feels the pain. What is he doing to hold them to account? And what are you doing to quantify the amount of work your team is doing to mitigate the disaster? (It's truly a frustrating experience, and I empathize. I have a strong feeling the people who force these decisions should share in the pain.)

notacoward 7y ago

Totally this. I'm on the US east coast. At my last job, most of my colleagues were in Bangalore. Time zones made meetings a bit of a pain for everyone. Certainly nothing ad hoc, and even meetings planned well in advance were usually less than ideal. Even worse, the evening-to-morning "ping times" often slowed progress. That's bad when it's a code review that ends up taking weeks. It's terrible when it's debugging a customer issue. I have to say that certain cultural issues made all that worse. I did run into the "say yes but then do nothing" issue that other people had warned me about. Also, the team I worked with was super sensitive to hierarchy, who got to make decisions, who got credit for what, even who could talk to whom. This often led to people being offended, or to realizing that the "wrong" people had been involved in a discussion, requiring another round-the-world ping time or two to resolve. I saw multiple people forced out of the group because of these issues and have had lengthy discussions with a couple about how that happened (it turns out that just being too friendly with me is one thing that broke a local taboo), so I don't think it was a purely local phenomenon. I don't know how any of the cultural issues affect a single developer joining a team elsewhere, though. Perhaps people who've had a bad experience with an Indian team don't think about how an individual would be different. Perhaps they're just discriminating. But I'll bet time zones are a big part of it.

rgergewrgerg 7y ago

Agreed with this. However, I have a slightly unethical suggestion especially for freelancers. One of my friend did this. Open up a LLC in the US. You don't need to step a foot in the US to open LLC here. Get a bank account for LLC in the US. My friend did it via family connection but there are many lawyers who should be able to help international clients with this. Once you have LLC, it makes so much easier to get paid. Next step is to work mostly nights. And for unethical part, tell clients you are in South America. Indian developers have such a bad reputation that it is almost impossible to close. But by using American name and saying he is in South America, his close rate is about 50%.

herodotus 7y ago
It is not just a matter of ethics. I once had a colleague who suggested to me (in private), that I "adjust" a report I was giving to ensure a favourable outcome. At that moment, I realized that I could never trust the colleague again. And I never did. If you (OP) get caught with such a massive lie ("I live in South America") you reputation will be permanently damaged. Stay honest. Honestly.
- netsharc 7y ago
  I wonder if you can lawyer it. Fly to South America, write in the e-mail "I write to you from Rio de Janeiro, and I'm available to work from 9 to 6 US east coast time". Technically... it's all honest.