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>How are they going to even know? Because it's a non-standard key with print on it: "Property of X, not to be copied without permission" and because it's a non

>How are they going to even know? Because it's a non-standard key with print on it: "Property of X, not to be copied without permission" and because it's a non-standard key, to even get the blanks requires knowing whom to ask for permission to make copies. Think something like US Post Office box keys, or bank safe deposit keys.

CaptainZapp 7y ago
"Property of X, not to be copied without permission" Not even that. The keys I was referring to have serial numbers and the blanks are strictly controlled. Only the owner of said serial numbers (usually represented by a card) can order copies directly from the manufacturer or their designated agents. Normal key copy shops wouldn't even have the blanks to furnish copies. I don't think that it's totally impossible to copy such keys and it will be probably even be harder to prevent copys in the future (think 3d printing). But you can't have them copied by any old shoe maker with a key copy side business.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  Back in my university days they would only give us one key to a room that was designated for our club. They had the special blanks with the second set of teeth on the inside. I just found "normal" blanks with the same cross section, whipped up the tooth profile and a holding fixture in some pirated CAD program and took a thumb drive and the blanks down to the machine shop during lab hours.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    Anyone who knows how to use a machine shop can duplicate any key. For most keys there are specific machines that don't require skill to operate that duplicate it. The skill required to duplicate the other keys, combined with the "do not duplicate" stamp on the other keys means that such keys are rarely duplicated.
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      In the vast majority of the US, there is no law against businesses duplicating keys stamped with "do not duplicate" which means it's usually not too hard to find a shop that will do so.
      - bluGill 7y ago
        That depends. You are legally correct. Most shops when seeing a do not duplicate key will do some checking to see if you should be allowed to duplicate the key (but there is no standard here), compared to any other key which they will duplicate no questions asked. Also some "secure" keys don't have any blanks. Most shops don't have the ability to duplicate them. You can still get them copied, but you need a skilled machinist at considerably more cost.
- mcphage 7y ago
  > I don't think that it's totally impossible to copy such keys and it will be probably even be harder to prevent copys in the future (think 3d printing). But you can't have them copied by any old shoe maker with a key copy side business. I remember a story recently about a secure luggage key. And every luggage lock was supposed to use it, but you weren't supposed to be able to get copies. But then a newspaper article printed a full-page image of the key, so... yeah, it got duplicated on a 3D printer that day: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/11/tsa-master-luggage-keys-are-3d-printed-after-photo-published-online/ https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/11/tsa-master-lugga...

CaptainZapp 7y ago

"Property of X, not to be copied without permission" Not even that. The keys I was referring to have serial numbers and the blanks are strictly controlled. Only the owner of said serial numbers (usually represented by a card) can order copies directly from the manufacturer or their designated agents. Normal key copy shops wouldn't even have the blanks to furnish copies. I don't think that it's totally impossible to copy such keys and it will be probably even be harder to prevent copys in the future (think 3d printing). But you can't have them copied by any old shoe maker with a key copy side business.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
Back in my university days they would only give us one key to a room that was designated for our club. They had the special blanks with the second set of teeth on the inside. I just found "normal" blanks with the same cross section, whipped up the tooth profile and a holding fixture in some pirated CAD program and took a thumb drive and the blanks down to the machine shop during lab hours.
- bluGill 7y ago
  Anyone who knows how to use a machine shop can duplicate any key. For most keys there are specific machines that don't require skill to operate that duplicate it. The skill required to duplicate the other keys, combined with the "do not duplicate" stamp on the other keys means that such keys are rarely duplicated.
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    In the vast majority of the US, there is no law against businesses duplicating keys stamped with "do not duplicate" which means it's usually not too hard to find a shop that will do so.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      That depends. You are legally correct. Most shops when seeing a do not duplicate key will do some checking to see if you should be allowed to duplicate the key (but there is no standard here), compared to any other key which they will duplicate no questions asked. Also some "secure" keys don't have any blanks. Most shops don't have the ability to duplicate them. You can still get them copied, but you need a skilled machinist at considerably more cost.
mcphage 7y ago
> I don't think that it's totally impossible to copy such keys and it will be probably even be harder to prevent copys in the future (think 3d printing). But you can't have them copied by any old shoe maker with a key copy side business. I remember a story recently about a secure luggage key. And every luggage lock was supposed to use it, but you weren't supposed to be able to get copies. But then a newspaper article printed a full-page image of the key, so... yeah, it got duplicated on a 3D printer that day: https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/11/tsa-master-luggage-keys-are-3d-printed-after-photo-published-online/ https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/11/tsa-master-lugga...