7 ms·

Is this legal? At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. [0] I can imagine that y

by lqet 7y ago

Is this legal? At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. [0] I can imagine that you can be held liable if, for example, a fire breaks out in your apartment, the apartment owner notices it, tries to enter your apartment to extinguish it, cannot enter because of changed lock, and the building burns down. [0] as others have mentioned below, this does not seem to be enforceable, even if it is part of the contract, and you are free to change locks after moving in. You only have to give the landlord access to the apartment in case of emergency, and he may enter forcefully if you don't do that (or if you are not present / have changed locks).

Sendotsh 7y ago
In Australia you’re legally allowed to change the locks on your rental but you’re required to give a copy of the new keys to your Agent within x hours (my contract says 24hrs). We do it for all properties and highly recommend it, as we’ve had an ex-contractor (had worked on renovations) walk into our rental a week after we moved in, letting himself in with his keys thinking no one had moved in yet. Wifey was on the couch and let out a hell of a yell, and we chased him out before calling the Police.
- jfk13 7y ago
  In my experience (UK), a typical rental agreement will require you to inform the landlord/agent and provide them with a key, or even get their prior consent to make the change. (I'm not sure if there's actual law on the subject or if it's purely down to the terms of the contract.)
  - jon-wood 7y ago
    UK rentals typically require prior approval for any sort of modification made to the home - I've had contracts where they considered hanging a picture to be a modification, so I'm pretty sure changing the locks would come under that clause.
_delirium 7y ago
It's legal in the UK for a tenant to change the locks, and there's also no law requiring them to provide the landlord a copy of the key. You do have to allow the landlord in for certain reasons (like maintenance) with advance notice, but you can do that by just being home and letting them in yourself. However, the letting contract might prohibit it, and I think commonly does. It's not a right of the tenant to be able to change the locks, so the contract can restrict it, but it's allowed by default if the contract doesn't say anything. Details: https://www.urban.co.uk/landlord-university/questions-and-answers/urbancouk-qa-my-tenant-has-changed-the-locks-on-my-property-and-not-given-me-a-key-is-this-allowed/ https://www.urban.co.uk/landlord-university/questions-and-an...
- sjtgraham 7y ago
  Tenants have common law "exclusive possession" and "right to quiet enjoyment" in a UK residential AST. Landlord's presence must be with tenant's consent, it is trespass and possibly an "unlawful eviction" offence otherwise. Landlord don't even have a right of entry to comply with their own statutory requirements, e.g. gas safety check. The only exception is in an "emergency", e.g. a fire.
  - cr1895 7y ago
    >"right to quiet enjoyment" Ah, yeah I encountered the same in Netherlands. A while back the law changed and some legal liability shifted towards landlords if their tenants were found to be growing cannabis. So my property management company decided that they would do random, unannounced inspections of all their tenants four times per year. Plainly contrary to the authorized, agreed-upon reasons for visits and counter to my right not to be bothered. Cue some unknown to me guy knocking on the door asking to look around. Nope! After I argued with the company a few times and refused them entry they finally stopped pestering me. And I'm not growing cannabis...but neither am I a freshman in a college dorm!
- flarg 7y ago
  I've done this and you are correct. Decent landlords won't mind if you request permission to change the locks.
cr1895 7y ago
My rental contract in the Netherlands forbids it, but at one time I discussed it with a lawyer and it's not an enforceable clause. Eventually I had to get the lock replaced and I have no intention of giving the property company a key. >the apartment owner notices it, tries to enter your apartment to extinguish it, cannot enter because of changed lock, and the building burns down. The fire department/emergency services would absolutely be allowed to (force) enter...why should the landlord be the savior? Perhaps it's different in Germany.
- skrause 7y ago
  > Perhaps it's different in Germany. It's not.
alphager 7y ago
It is completely legal to change the locks as a tenant in Germany: https://www.n-tv.de/ratgeber/Darf-der-Mieter-das-Tuerschloss-wechseln-article19719242.html https://www.n-tv.de/ratgeber/Darf-der-Mieter-das-Tuerschloss...
Faaak 7y ago
If there's an emergency, you kick the door. If it's not an emergency, then you don't need to enter the apartment without the tenant.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Who pays for the broken door?
  - cr1895 7y ago
    The apartment owner, or perhaps their insurance.
  - thrower123 7y ago
    If it is really an emergency (fire, heat failure, plumbing emergency, etc), not kicking down the door will cost far more than the $200 that a new door costs.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      Apparently everyone decided I was proposing letting it all burn down. I was only wondering if, by letting the landlord have a key who could be used in an emergency, the tenants where reducing the risk of being on the hook for those extra $200. Of course the emergency must be dealt with.
  - doikor 7y ago
    Insurance company.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  What about a broken waterpipe? That's the most common emergency where a landlord or maintenance staff needs access to prevent building damage.
Loic 7y ago
The owner is allowed to keep a key only if the tenant is allowing him. You can change all the locks as tenant if you do not allow him and if you are not sure he is not keeping a key. If your contract stipulates that you must leave the owner a key, you can still change the lock, the clause in the contract is by law not valid.
schlowmo 7y ago
> "At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations." I am not a lawyer but I know that this is a common misunderstanding in Germany. The landlord is not allowed to keep a key to the apartment he rented out, unless you're explicitly consent to it.[0] You have to grant him access in case of an emergency and if you don't do that, forced entry may be legal (like in the case of a pipe burst). [0] https://www.mieterbund.de/index.php?id=566 https://www.mieterbund.de/index.php?id=566
- djsumdog 7y ago
  It's most likely built into all standard landlord agreements. I can't imagine a landlord not wanting to have keys a unit they rent out. In most US states, landlords are required to give 24 hour notice prior to entering a unit (unless it's a maintenance emergency like a broken water pipe).
  - cyborgx7 7y ago
    If it is in the landlord agreement in Germany, that part of the agreement is void. Such a thing is against German law.
- cyborgx7 7y ago
  That's good to learn! I think I might replace the lock this weekend.
skrause 7y ago
> At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. This is completely wrong. In Germany the apartment owner is not even allowed to keep a copy of the key unless you voluntarily give them one. I live in Germany and I also changed the lock the day I moved in and the landlord is not allow to forbid me from doing that.
- sstephant 7y ago
  Same in France. The owner has to relinquish all its means to access the appartement to the tenant.
_Codemonkeyism 7y ago
A little bit of googling tells me that in Germany you are allowed to change the lock [1]. Never thought of that, will do it probably next time I move. [1] https://www.advocard.de/streitlotse/mieten-und-wohnen/schloss-austauschen-in-der-mietwohnung-rechte-als-mieter/ https://www.advocard.de/streitlotse/mieten-und-wohnen/schlos...
tinus_hn 7y ago
Then you aren’t allowed to use a door latch. A rule an owner is allowed to enter doesn’t mean you have to make it possible, just that you can’t complain if he succeeds in entering.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
jethro_tell 7y ago
Wouldn't say fire, they're going to break the door down anyway, but something like a pipe burst or sewer backup, is also time sensitive but not life threatening and in that situation, you might be liable.
gpm 7y ago
In Ontario, it's explicitly illegal. One of the very few parts of the law here that isn't tenant friendly.

by lqet 7y ago

Sendotsh 7y ago

In Australia you’re legally allowed to change the locks on your rental but you’re required to give a copy of the new keys to your Agent within x hours (my contract says 24hrs). We do it for all properties and highly recommend it, as we’ve had an ex-contractor (had worked on renovations) walk into our rental a week after we moved in, letting himself in with his keys thinking no one had moved in yet. Wifey was on the couch and let out a hell of a yell, and we chased him out before calling the Police.

jfk13 7y ago
In my experience (UK), a typical rental agreement will require you to inform the landlord/agent and provide them with a key, or even get their prior consent to make the change. (I'm not sure if there's actual law on the subject or if it's purely down to the terms of the contract.)
- jon-wood 7y ago
  UK rentals typically require prior approval for any sort of modification made to the home - I've had contracts where they considered hanging a picture to be a modification, so I'm pretty sure changing the locks would come under that clause.

_delirium 7y ago

It's legal in the UK for a tenant to change the locks, and there's also no law requiring them to provide the landlord a copy of the key. You do have to allow the landlord in for certain reasons (like maintenance) with advance notice, but you can do that by just being home and letting them in yourself. However, the letting contract might prohibit it, and I think commonly does. It's not a right of the tenant to be able to change the locks, so the contract can restrict it, but it's allowed by default if the contract doesn't say anything. Details: https://www.urban.co.uk/landlord-university/questions-and-answers/urbancouk-qa-my-tenant-has-changed-the-locks-on-my-property-and-not-given-me-a-key-is-this-allowed/ https://www.urban.co.uk/landlord-university/questions-and-an...

sjtgraham 7y ago
Tenants have common law "exclusive possession" and "right to quiet enjoyment" in a UK residential AST. Landlord's presence must be with tenant's consent, it is trespass and possibly an "unlawful eviction" offence otherwise. Landlord don't even have a right of entry to comply with their own statutory requirements, e.g. gas safety check. The only exception is in an "emergency", e.g. a fire.
- cr1895 7y ago
  >"right to quiet enjoyment" Ah, yeah I encountered the same in Netherlands. A while back the law changed and some legal liability shifted towards landlords if their tenants were found to be growing cannabis. So my property management company decided that they would do random, unannounced inspections of all their tenants four times per year. Plainly contrary to the authorized, agreed-upon reasons for visits and counter to my right not to be bothered. Cue some unknown to me guy knocking on the door asking to look around. Nope! After I argued with the company a few times and refused them entry they finally stopped pestering me. And I'm not growing cannabis...but neither am I a freshman in a college dorm!
flarg 7y ago
I've done this and you are correct. Decent landlords won't mind if you request permission to change the locks.

cr1895 7y ago

My rental contract in the Netherlands forbids it, but at one time I discussed it with a lawyer and it's not an enforceable clause. Eventually I had to get the lock replaced and I have no intention of giving the property company a key. >the apartment owner notices it, tries to enter your apartment to extinguish it, cannot enter because of changed lock, and the building burns down. The fire department/emergency services would absolutely be allowed to (force) enter...why should the landlord be the savior? Perhaps it's different in Germany.

skrause 7y ago
> Perhaps it's different in Germany. It's not.

alphager 7y ago

It is completely legal to change the locks as a tenant in Germany: https://www.n-tv.de/ratgeber/Darf-der-Mieter-das-Tuerschloss-wechseln-article19719242.html https://www.n-tv.de/ratgeber/Darf-der-Mieter-das-Tuerschloss...

Faaak 7y ago

If there's an emergency, you kick the door. If it's not an emergency, then you don't need to enter the apartment without the tenant.

icebraining 7y ago
Who pays for the broken door?
- cr1895 7y ago
  The apartment owner, or perhaps their insurance.
- thrower123 7y ago
  If it is really an emergency (fire, heat failure, plumbing emergency, etc), not kicking down the door will cost far more than the $200 that a new door costs.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Apparently everyone decided I was proposing letting it all burn down. I was only wondering if, by letting the landlord have a key who could be used in an emergency, the tenants where reducing the risk of being on the hook for those extra $200. Of course the emergency must be dealt with.
- doikor 7y ago
  Insurance company.
djsumdog 7y ago
What about a broken waterpipe? That's the most common emergency where a landlord or maintenance staff needs access to prevent building damage.

Loic 7y ago

The owner is allowed to keep a key only if the tenant is allowing him. You can change all the locks as tenant if you do not allow him and if you are not sure he is not keeping a key. If your contract stipulates that you must leave the owner a key, you can still change the lock, the clause in the contract is by law not valid.

schlowmo 7y ago

> "At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations." I am not a lawyer but I know that this is a common misunderstanding in Germany. The landlord is not allowed to keep a key to the apartment he rented out, unless you're explicitly consent to it.[0] You have to grant him access in case of an emergency and if you don't do that, forced entry may be legal (like in the case of a pipe burst). [0] https://www.mieterbund.de/index.php?id=566 https://www.mieterbund.de/index.php?id=566

djsumdog 7y ago
It's most likely built into all standard landlord agreements. I can't imagine a landlord not wanting to have keys a unit they rent out. In most US states, landlords are required to give 24 hour notice prior to entering a unit (unless it's a maintenance emergency like a broken water pipe).
- cyborgx7 7y ago
  If it is in the landlord agreement in Germany, that part of the agreement is void. Such a thing is against German law.
cyborgx7 7y ago
That's good to learn! I think I might replace the lock this weekend.

skrause 7y ago

> At least here in Germany, the apartment owner is allowed to enter your apartment using his key in emergency situations. This is completely wrong. In Germany the apartment owner is not even allowed to keep a copy of the key unless you voluntarily give them one. I live in Germany and I also changed the lock the day I moved in and the landlord is not allow to forbid me from doing that.

sstephant 7y ago
Same in France. The owner has to relinquish all its means to access the appartement to the tenant.

_Codemonkeyism 7y ago

A little bit of googling tells me that in Germany you are allowed to change the lock [1]. Never thought of that, will do it probably next time I move. [1] https://www.advocard.de/streitlotse/mieten-und-wohnen/schloss-austauschen-in-der-mietwohnung-rechte-als-mieter/ https://www.advocard.de/streitlotse/mieten-und-wohnen/schlos...

tinus_hn 7y ago

Then you aren’t allowed to use a door latch. A rule an owner is allowed to enter doesn’t mean you have to make it possible, just that you can’t complain if he succeeds in entering.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

jethro_tell 7y ago

Wouldn't say fire, they're going to break the door down anyway, but something like a pipe burst or sewer backup, is also time sensitive but not life threatening and in that situation, you might be liable.

gpm 7y ago

In Ontario, it's explicitly illegal. One of the very few parts of the law here that isn't tenant friendly.