4 ms·

I don't know how Marzipan will turn out, but Microsoft has a history of trying good ideas way before they are viable and make the whole concept look unhealthy.

by hrktb 7y ago

I don't know how Marzipan will turn out, but Microsoft has a history of trying good ideas way before they are viable and make the whole concept look unhealthy. For instance PDAs and 'smartphones' where tried and got mild commercial viability way ahead of time with Windows Pocket, but they couldn't push it to the point it could be mainstream. Tablets were also tried first. Netbooks. Motion tracking in games. ARM base laptops (we're not there yet, but that should be coming ?) I almost prefer Google's attitude of just launching and roughlessly killing new products, the stigma left is smaller.

oblio 7y ago
> Microsoft has a history of trying good ideas way before they are viable and make the whole concept look unhealthy. I think it also had to do with their sheer size. Researching stuff is fine, but in many cases they were pushing out half-baked solution with the force of the herd of elephants that Microsoft is. Had a company 1/100th their size tried the same thing, no big deal, just ignore it. But when a company worth $1tn these days does the same thing, whatever they're promoting is seen everywhere. They really needed something in-between Microsoft Research (research almost nobody sees) and full blown Microsoft. Maybe a Microsoft Skunkworks Startup? :)
- dominotw 7y ago
  Zune and zune subscription music were not half baked though. I used it for years. It was simply ahead of its time. Even jobs said subscription music would never be a thing because ppl want to own their music.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Jobs saw the train wrecks of previous subscription services like Pressplay that came out in 2001.
  - dangus 7y ago
    It was definitely ahead of its time, because people forget about what makes Spotify/Apple Music/Google Play so much better than purchased music: Persistent Internet Connection. The iPod, Zune, and Creative Nomad existed for something like 7 or more years before smartphones came around. It's great that you could subscribe to a music service and sync with whatever songs you wanted, but that doesn't seem terribly useful compared to purchasing albums if you have no ability to queue up any song on demand. Spotify feels more like unlimited access than those subscription services ever did. As for Jobs' opinion, I think he mostly just held very personal feelings toward albums as a dude who grew up in the classic rock era. Plus, at the time, subscription services existed and just weren't very popular (see above).
Marazan 7y ago
Microsoft (+ Intel) murdered the netbook in one of the most insane self sabotaging plays I have ever seen. Combine that with the launch of the ipad and the future of ARM based laptops was delayed over a decade. Netbook makers were poised to release Arm netbooks only to get scared when the ipad was announced.
- dTal 7y ago
  It wasn't self-sabotaging. The first netbooks ran Linux and ran okay, at a time when Microsoft was about to EOL Windows XP and Vista absolutely wouldn't run on such devices. If they'd caught on, it could have spelled the end of Microsoft desktop hegemony. It prompted a panicked reaction of extending the service life of XP, while introducing restrictive licensing to pitiful 1024x600 displays (which fit the current crop, but restricted their growth). It was a classic "embrace/extinguish" response to an existential threat.
- scarface74 7y ago
  ARM netbooks running what in 2010?
  - Marazan 7y ago
    Linux although some were going to go with android
- IOT_Apprentice 7y ago
  Apple with the iPad and revisions of the MacBook Air murdered the netbook.And Google Android as a platform smothered Windows Phone completely.
dspillett 7y ago
Tablets they were definitely ahead of the game on, though the hardware wasn't ready to be affordable the OS has never done well in that environment so it didn't work out. I'm not so sure about netbooks though: I remember that being something the played "catchup or kill" on. Any links to refresh my history?
- laumars 7y ago
  You're right about Netbooks. Microsoft were late to the game on that one. All the early ones were Linux - and still hugely popular too. Microsoft then had to heavily "subsidise" XP to even compete (there's a lot more to it than that but that was the essence of it). Interestingly Apple said they had no interest in the Netbook market. They released the MacBook Air which had a roughly equivolent form factor but at a wildly different price point.
  - dspillett 7y ago
    > "subsidise" XP Not just that: they effectively had to extend its life as there was no way Vista was going to run well on those small devices and 7 wasn't ready for roll-out.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
I don't know what makes people react the way they do so that MS ahead-of-time releases "make the whole concept look unhealthy". PDAs and 'smartphones' didn't become mainstream pre-Apple, but their design was also more productive. Were it to catch on, we'd have better tools. Microsoft still makes superior tablets, and the only OS for tablets that's usable for productive work. I only wish they didn't rush to market with Windows phones. Their UI language was a breath of fresh air, and they had a chance to make good smartphones for pro users and professionals. People usually blame the app store, but based on my brother's experience with an early Windows Phone, IMO they released the OS with way too little built-in features compared to contemporary Android systems. It could have survived longer were it more functional out of the box.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >PDAs and 'smartphones' didn't become mainstream pre-Apple, but their design was also more productive. More productive than your current iPhone or Android phone? That's some seriously rose colored glasses. And I had $800 "smartphones" pre iPhone, and they were all crap...
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    My 500 euro Symbian smartphones were quite ok, and by the time the unfortunate "Burning Platform" memo arrived, it was quite good and Symbian C++ was finally on its way out, we had Qt, Java, Python and Web Widgets to play with as platform languages.
  - ChrisRR 7y ago
    Not more productive than the original iPhone which didn't have apps, 3G or Flash
    - toasterlovin 7y ago
      Apps and 3G literally came the following model year. Flash never mattered for anybody on mobile.
    - dangus 7y ago
zeveb 7y ago
Apple, too! Don’t forget the Newton and the Macintosh TV.

by hrktb 7y ago

oblio 7y ago

> Microsoft has a history of trying good ideas way before they are viable and make the whole concept look unhealthy. I think it also had to do with their sheer size. Researching stuff is fine, but in many cases they were pushing out half-baked solution with the force of the herd of elephants that Microsoft is. Had a company 1/100th their size tried the same thing, no big deal, just ignore it. But when a company worth $1tn these days does the same thing, whatever they're promoting is seen everywhere. They really needed something in-between Microsoft Research (research almost nobody sees) and full blown Microsoft. Maybe a Microsoft Skunkworks Startup? :)

dominotw 7y ago
Zune and zune subscription music were not half baked though. I used it for years. It was simply ahead of its time. Even jobs said subscription music would never be a thing because ppl want to own their music.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Jobs saw the train wrecks of previous subscription services like Pressplay that came out in 2001.
- dangus 7y ago
  It was definitely ahead of its time, because people forget about what makes Spotify/Apple Music/Google Play so much better than purchased music: Persistent Internet Connection. The iPod, Zune, and Creative Nomad existed for something like 7 or more years before smartphones came around. It's great that you could subscribe to a music service and sync with whatever songs you wanted, but that doesn't seem terribly useful compared to purchasing albums if you have no ability to queue up any song on demand. Spotify feels more like unlimited access than those subscription services ever did. As for Jobs' opinion, I think he mostly just held very personal feelings toward albums as a dude who grew up in the classic rock era. Plus, at the time, subscription services existed and just weren't very popular (see above).

Marazan 7y ago

Microsoft (+ Intel) murdered the netbook in one of the most insane self sabotaging plays I have ever seen. Combine that with the launch of the ipad and the future of ARM based laptops was delayed over a decade. Netbook makers were poised to release Arm netbooks only to get scared when the ipad was announced.

dTal 7y ago
It wasn't self-sabotaging. The first netbooks ran Linux and ran okay, at a time when Microsoft was about to EOL Windows XP and Vista absolutely wouldn't run on such devices. If they'd caught on, it could have spelled the end of Microsoft desktop hegemony. It prompted a panicked reaction of extending the service life of XP, while introducing restrictive licensing to pitiful 1024x600 displays (which fit the current crop, but restricted their growth). It was a classic "embrace/extinguish" response to an existential threat.
scarface74 7y ago
ARM netbooks running what in 2010?
- Marazan 7y ago
  Linux although some were going to go with android
IOT_Apprentice 7y ago
Apple with the iPad and revisions of the MacBook Air murdered the netbook.And Google Android as a platform smothered Windows Phone completely.

dspillett 7y ago

Tablets they were definitely ahead of the game on, though the hardware wasn't ready to be affordable the OS has never done well in that environment so it didn't work out. I'm not so sure about netbooks though: I remember that being something the played "catchup or kill" on. Any links to refresh my history?

laumars 7y ago
You're right about Netbooks. Microsoft were late to the game on that one. All the early ones were Linux - and still hugely popular too. Microsoft then had to heavily "subsidise" XP to even compete (there's a lot more to it than that but that was the essence of it). Interestingly Apple said they had no interest in the Netbook market. They released the MacBook Air which had a roughly equivolent form factor but at a wildly different price point.
- dspillett 7y ago
  > "subsidise" XP Not just that: they effectively had to extend its life as there was no way Vista was going to run well on those small devices and 7 wasn't ready for roll-out.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

I don't know what makes people react the way they do so that MS ahead-of-time releases "make the whole concept look unhealthy". PDAs and 'smartphones' didn't become mainstream pre-Apple, but their design was also more productive. Were it to catch on, we'd have better tools. Microsoft still makes superior tablets, and the only OS for tablets that's usable for productive work. I only wish they didn't rush to market with Windows phones. Their UI language was a breath of fresh air, and they had a chance to make good smartphones for pro users and professionals. People usually blame the app store, but based on my brother's experience with an early Windows Phone, IMO they released the OS with way too little built-in features compared to contemporary Android systems. It could have survived longer were it more functional out of the box.

coldtea 7y ago
>PDAs and 'smartphones' didn't become mainstream pre-Apple, but their design was also more productive. More productive than your current iPhone or Android phone? That's some seriously rose colored glasses. And I had $800 "smartphones" pre iPhone, and they were all crap...
- pjmlp 7y ago
  My 500 euro Symbian smartphones were quite ok, and by the time the unfortunate "Burning Platform" memo arrived, it was quite good and Symbian C++ was finally on its way out, we had Qt, Java, Python and Web Widgets to play with as platform languages.
- ChrisRR 7y ago
  Not more productive than the original iPhone which didn't have apps, 3G or Flash
  - toasterlovin 7y ago
    Apps and 3G literally came the following model year. Flash never mattered for anybody on mobile.
  - dangus 7y ago

zeveb 7y ago

Apple, too! Don’t forget the Newton and the Macintosh TV.