4 ms·

I'd rather have violence in the form of imprisonment due to tax avoidance than violence in the form of children being forced to work or starve due to being born

I'd rather have violence in the form of imprisonment due to tax avoidance than violence in the form of children being forced to work or starve due to being born into poverty. I wonder which one of us is being melodramatic here.

johnisgood 7y ago
Are you implying that if it were not for taxation, we would have children being forced to work or starve due to being born into poverty? How come?
- maxdamantus 7y ago
  Because there would be no safety net. There would be no guarantee of access to education. I'm not necessarily saying that "taxation" is the best way to provide these things, but the .. ideas .. proposed by the website you linked certainly aren't. From what I read, it basically said things like: "government isn't doing a good job, therefore we should get rid of it" and calls for (direct quote) "government to get out of the way of the productive and ever-inventive energies of the public as expressed in voluntary market activity". Maybe we should stop prosecuting people for murder, since it's obviously not stopping it from happening. Maybe we should just allow the market to play betting games over subprime mortgages as it sees fit. Maybe we should just allow banks to launder money for drug cartels and terrorists as long as they're making a profit off it. Am I getting close to the unregulated dream?
  - zeropnc 7y ago
    Example of a country who’s people are dying on the streets because of a lack of taxation?
    - maxdamantus 7y ago
      I don't know if you're aware of this, but child labour is something that exists today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labour#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labour#21st_century Additionally, here's a list of currently 37 countries that rely on taxation from wealthier countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavily_indebted_poor_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavily_indebted_poor_countrie...
      - zeropnc 7y ago
        ...how is that an answer to my question?
        johnisgood 7y ago
        Yeah, somehow child labor = children are dying. It is ridiculous. Most of the time they are better off working, and not just to gain experience, but to bring money or food home and so on. Heck, when I was a kid, most kids I knew worked and was better off doing that. They were not dying, they are not dead. What gives then? His link even mentions this: > Contrary to popular belief, most child labourers are employed by their parents rather than in manufacturing or formal economy. > Preventing children from participating in productive work would be more harmful to their welfare and that of their group in the long run Child labor is not inherently wrong, and no one says the kids should have to work in harsh conditions just like the adults. Child labor != children dying. It is not an answer to your question, he just has absolutely no clue what he is talking about. It is yet another instance of "think about the children" gone wrong. I mean, yeah dude, working at retail or assembling whatever is killing our children! Absurd. Edit: I am against forced labor when it comes to both children AND adults.
        zeropnc 7y ago
        I find it interesting that people who blindly support social economics almost always immediately revert to some moral argument. Good to know it only took 2 posts for you to revert to "oh the hugh manity, you obviously like dead children" The original question was about a country where raising taxes would improve the situation. Name me a country that solved child labour and improved the economy by raising taxes? If you could accomplish that point without comparing me and my family members to the Nazi party, extra points.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        johnisgood 7y ago
  - acct1771 7y ago
    > Maybe we should just allow banks to launder money for drug cartels and terrorists as long as they're making a profit off it. HSBC still does business in the US to this day after being prosecuted for exactly this, because they paid the speedbump fine.
acct1771 7y ago
Instead, we've seemingly gone the opposite extreme, and kids barely understand how to exist outside and amongst their peers, let alone do an hour of hard work.

johnisgood 7y ago

Are you implying that if it were not for taxation, we would have children being forced to work or starve due to being born into poverty? How come?

maxdamantus 7y ago
Because there would be no safety net. There would be no guarantee of access to education. I'm not necessarily saying that "taxation" is the best way to provide these things, but the .. ideas .. proposed by the website you linked certainly aren't. From what I read, it basically said things like: "government isn't doing a good job, therefore we should get rid of it" and calls for (direct quote) "government to get out of the way of the productive and ever-inventive energies of the public as expressed in voluntary market activity". Maybe we should stop prosecuting people for murder, since it's obviously not stopping it from happening. Maybe we should just allow the market to play betting games over subprime mortgages as it sees fit. Maybe we should just allow banks to launder money for drug cartels and terrorists as long as they're making a profit off it. Am I getting close to the unregulated dream?
- zeropnc 7y ago
  Example of a country who’s people are dying on the streets because of a lack of taxation?
  - maxdamantus 7y ago
    I don't know if you're aware of this, but child labour is something that exists today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labour#21st_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labour#21st_century Additionally, here's a list of currently 37 countries that rely on taxation from wealthier countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavily_indebted_poor_countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavily_indebted_poor_countrie...
    - zeropnc 7y ago
      ...how is that an answer to my question?
      - johnisgood 7y ago
        Yeah, somehow child labor = children are dying. It is ridiculous. Most of the time they are better off working, and not just to gain experience, but to bring money or food home and so on. Heck, when I was a kid, most kids I knew worked and was better off doing that. They were not dying, they are not dead. What gives then? His link even mentions this: > Contrary to popular belief, most child labourers are employed by their parents rather than in manufacturing or formal economy. > Preventing children from participating in productive work would be more harmful to their welfare and that of their group in the long run Child labor is not inherently wrong, and no one says the kids should have to work in harsh conditions just like the adults. Child labor != children dying. It is not an answer to your question, he just has absolutely no clue what he is talking about. It is yet another instance of "think about the children" gone wrong. I mean, yeah dude, working at retail or assembling whatever is killing our children! Absurd. Edit: I am against forced labor when it comes to both children AND adults.
        zeropnc 7y ago
        I find it interesting that people who blindly support social economics almost always immediately revert to some moral argument. Good to know it only took 2 posts for you to revert to "oh the hugh manity, you obviously like dead children" The original question was about a country where raising taxes would improve the situation. Name me a country that solved child labour and improved the economy by raising taxes? If you could accomplish that point without comparing me and my family members to the Nazi party, extra points.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
        johnisgood 7y ago
- acct1771 7y ago
  > Maybe we should just allow banks to launder money for drug cartels and terrorists as long as they're making a profit off it. HSBC still does business in the US to this day after being prosecuted for exactly this, because they paid the speedbump fine.

acct1771 7y ago

Instead, we've seemingly gone the opposite extreme, and kids barely understand how to exist outside and amongst their peers, let alone do an hour of hard work.