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> why use a mac when WSL2 is out and Linux desktops are getting traction? This is applicable only for devs. Mac is not going anywhere for people in a lot of in

by inapis 7y ago

> why use a mac when WSL2 is out and Linux desktops are getting traction? This is applicable only for devs. Mac is not going anywhere for people in a lot of industries - writers, photographers, business, smb etc. WSL changes nothing for them and Linux was not in consideration anyways. Even for devs, I can argue that Mac/Windows are preferable over Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux but only on the server. Using Mac/Windows adds significant QoL improvements which are just not there on Linux.

feanaro 7y ago
> Even for devs, I can argue that Mac/Windows are preferable over Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux but only on the server. Using Mac/Windows adds significant QoL improvements which are just not there on Linux. Please, not this same old tired argument. I could say the exact same thing but in reverse, it would still be true for some definition of truth and we'd be none the wiser. If you're absolutely bent on talking about this tired old topic, concrete points are what you should be aiming for instead of vague value judgements.
- hellofunk 7y ago
  Maybe you could say that, personally, but quite a lot of developers don’t. I follow a lot of high-profile researchers at places like Nvidia, and they often discuss the desire to replace their Mac for dev purposes but have not found a quality alternative. An optimistic hope is that the Windows subsystem for Linux will evolve and mature beautifully. But it’s not there yet, and even then you’re often stuck dealing with significantly inferior hardware. So Mac tends to be the standard that a significant portion of the world’s developers compare against.
  - zeveb 7y ago
    > I follow a lot of high-profile researchers at places like Nvidia, and they often discuss the desire to replace their Mac for dev purposes but have not found a quality alternative. How ironic: Linux would be a lot more well-positioned for desktop use if Nvidia would open-source its proprietary drivers. Frankly, though, I find Linux eminently usable and preferable to macOS or Windows.
    - simonh 7y ago
      That's absolutely fine and good for you, but the plain fact is for the vast majority of people, including most developers, that's not the case. Having a single consistent desktop with a ton of financial resources behind it, and a commercial desktop software market also built using huge financial resources, makes a big difference. Financing is also why Linux kills it on the server. Redhat, IBM and many more have sunk $billion(s) into Linux as a server OS and it shows, but that level of investment has never happened for the Linux desktop.
      - addicted 7y ago
        I think the closest equivalent is Canonical. Canonical spent a lot of money on Desktop Linux, and to be honest, you can see the impact. Desktop Linux today is far more usable than it ever was, and the millions spent by Canonical are a large part of that. Unfortunately, Canonical appears to have scaled back their desktop spending, so it remains to be seen if someone else will step in. Maybe the System76 or Purism folks, or maybe Canonical will focus on Ubuntu desktop again, especially with Shuttleworth’s recent comments that he has been surprised with the number of large organizations requesrion Linux laptops, esp for their data science teams, etc.
jchb 7y ago
> Mac is not going anywhere for people in a lot of industries ~18 million Macs were sold last year, surely not all of them to developers. Mac sales declined slightly compared to previous year, but market share increased as also fewer PCs were sold.
- madeofpalk 7y ago
  I believe they said at their 'Pro roundtable' last year (or year before that?) that developers are their biggest 'Professional' segment. Of course 'non-professionals' buy Macs as well, but many developers by Macs.
pcr910303 7y ago
Yeah, this is applicable only to devs, but well, there’s one less reason to buy a Mac :-( If this repeats, well, one day Windows might be, well, not great, but ‘good enough’ for everyone, and the PC UX story won’t improve... :-(

by inapis 7y ago

feanaro 7y ago

> Even for devs, I can argue that Mac/Windows are preferable over Linux. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux but only on the server. Using Mac/Windows adds significant QoL improvements which are just not there on Linux. Please, not this same old tired argument. I could say the exact same thing but in reverse, it would still be true for some definition of truth and we'd be none the wiser. If you're absolutely bent on talking about this tired old topic, concrete points are what you should be aiming for instead of vague value judgements.

hellofunk 7y ago
Maybe you could say that, personally, but quite a lot of developers don’t. I follow a lot of high-profile researchers at places like Nvidia, and they often discuss the desire to replace their Mac for dev purposes but have not found a quality alternative. An optimistic hope is that the Windows subsystem for Linux will evolve and mature beautifully. But it’s not there yet, and even then you’re often stuck dealing with significantly inferior hardware. So Mac tends to be the standard that a significant portion of the world’s developers compare against.
- zeveb 7y ago
  > I follow a lot of high-profile researchers at places like Nvidia, and they often discuss the desire to replace their Mac for dev purposes but have not found a quality alternative. How ironic: Linux would be a lot more well-positioned for desktop use if Nvidia would open-source its proprietary drivers. Frankly, though, I find Linux eminently usable and preferable to macOS or Windows.
  - simonh 7y ago
    That's absolutely fine and good for you, but the plain fact is for the vast majority of people, including most developers, that's not the case. Having a single consistent desktop with a ton of financial resources behind it, and a commercial desktop software market also built using huge financial resources, makes a big difference. Financing is also why Linux kills it on the server. Redhat, IBM and many more have sunk $billion(s) into Linux as a server OS and it shows, but that level of investment has never happened for the Linux desktop.
    - addicted 7y ago
      I think the closest equivalent is Canonical. Canonical spent a lot of money on Desktop Linux, and to be honest, you can see the impact. Desktop Linux today is far more usable than it ever was, and the millions spent by Canonical are a large part of that. Unfortunately, Canonical appears to have scaled back their desktop spending, so it remains to be seen if someone else will step in. Maybe the System76 or Purism folks, or maybe Canonical will focus on Ubuntu desktop again, especially with Shuttleworth’s recent comments that he has been surprised with the number of large organizations requesrion Linux laptops, esp for their data science teams, etc.

jchb 7y ago

> Mac is not going anywhere for people in a lot of industries ~18 million Macs were sold last year, surely not all of them to developers. Mac sales declined slightly compared to previous year, but market share increased as also fewer PCs were sold.

madeofpalk 7y ago
I believe they said at their 'Pro roundtable' last year (or year before that?) that developers are their biggest 'Professional' segment. Of course 'non-professionals' buy Macs as well, but many developers by Macs.

pcr910303 7y ago

Yeah, this is applicable only to devs, but well, there’s one less reason to buy a Mac :-( If this repeats, well, one day Windows might be, well, not great, but ‘good enough’ for everyone, and the PC UX story won’t improve... :-(