5 ms·

Maybe the luggage compartments should be automatically locked shut for any landing/takeoff thus preventing people accesssing them during an evacuation

kalkaran 7y ago
I remember reading that this was considered, but that there was a significant concern it would lead to passengers spending more time trying to break in to the lockers to get their bags. So it was abandoned.
- fyfy18 7y ago
  I can't beleive that it can be any worse than if people can get their luggage out. When you arrive to the gate on something like an A320 or 737, at the middle seats you often need to wait five minutes until everyone ahead and behind you (assuming both exits are used) has collected their luggage and got off. Often the isle ahead of the blocker is clear, it's just someone is struggling to get their luggage out and nobody else can get past. Federal and international regulations state than an aircraft with more than 44 passengers must be able to be fully evacuated in less than half of that - 90 seconds. Crews are meticulously trained for this, including practical tests. (My wife used to be crew on 777 and A380)
tapland 7y ago
I think that would make it worse, having people try to get it open. Until it becomes very common knowledge.
- chrischen 7y ago
  Well, at least then they'd also die along with the people behind them.
hughrlomas 7y ago
How about mandatory jail time for anyone removing personal items during an emergency evacuation.
- bottled_poe 7y ago
  It does seem like those individuals are culpable for the deaths that occurred in this incident and perhaps will be charged. edit: removed "criminally" as it seems that this would be a civil case.
  - ptaipale 7y ago
    Depends on jurisdiction, but I think in most countries it's a crime to not adhere to aviation safety regulations - including ignoring what the staff tells you to do in an emergency. Smoking in the lavatories, or standing up and refusing to sit down when you don't want to travel with someone - that results in criminal liability.
    - rjsw 7y ago
      There was a report of people being taken off a flight a few days ago for refusing to listen to the safety announcements. They were sitting in an exit row.
      - ptaipale 7y ago
        Yes, this was in NZ a few days ago. There are also several cases over recent years where immigration activists have been standing up in a plane when they wanted to stop the deportation of criminals. Result is usually fines (a criminal liability) and maybe ending up on a no-fly list (which is then not a criminal justice issue).
        slyall 7y ago
        The passengers in the New Zealand flight were jerks but one of them said: "I have to say that if watching the safety video is so crucial and you can be escorted off the plane, maybe Air New Zealand should stop making 'Rachel Hunter ice cream ad' safety videos," the passenger said. in reference to the the way Air New Zealand makes their videos with more an aim of going viral on youtube than getting across a safety message. Their last video was actually withdrawn because people hated it so much.
ultrarunner 7y ago
My five year old often struggles with compliance until someone explains "why." I suspect that adults aren't much different except for a stronger ability to suppress that reaction. Maybe, as the fine article mentions, rethinking safety briefings to include language that implies solid reasoning would lead to focus in the event of a disaster like this. After all, it's completely understandable to be thinking only of oneself in a high-stress, unexpected, and possibly life-threatening circumstance. Including brief supportive reasoning reminding people of others' safety might have positive effects.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
asclepi 7y ago
As usual in aviation, you cannot make a decision without impacting a lot of other stuff, this case is no different. For example, on certain aircraft models with limited OH space, a number of luggage OH bins - especially towards the extreme ends of the cabins as that is where the FA stations are - store emergency equipment as well. https://i2.wp.com/thepointsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Delta-Airbus-A220-C-Series-CS100-Preview-at-ATL-emergency-gear-overhead.jpg https://i2.wp.com/thepointsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/1... - an extreme example on Delta to prove the point, usually they store smaller emergency items. If you decide to lock the bins, then either you have to sacrifice OH space and reconfigure the bins to move the emergency equipment to exclusive bins, re-certify the plane (as it involves emergency equipment) and re-train cabin crew to never store any emergency gear in the other bins. Or, keep the bin configuration as it is, but don't lock the ones storing emergency equipment while you lock the others, and face a situation where pax in the extreme ends of the cabins - where emergency exits happen to be as well - can still get their stuff, which may encourage others to pry their bins open and lose a lot of time.

kalkaran 7y ago

I remember reading that this was considered, but that there was a significant concern it would lead to passengers spending more time trying to break in to the lockers to get their bags. So it was abandoned.

fyfy18 7y ago
I can't beleive that it can be any worse than if people can get their luggage out. When you arrive to the gate on something like an A320 or 737, at the middle seats you often need to wait five minutes until everyone ahead and behind you (assuming both exits are used) has collected their luggage and got off. Often the isle ahead of the blocker is clear, it's just someone is struggling to get their luggage out and nobody else can get past. Federal and international regulations state than an aircraft with more than 44 passengers must be able to be fully evacuated in less than half of that - 90 seconds. Crews are meticulously trained for this, including practical tests. (My wife used to be crew on 777 and A380)

tapland 7y ago

I think that would make it worse, having people try to get it open. Until it becomes very common knowledge.

chrischen 7y ago
Well, at least then they'd also die along with the people behind them.

hughrlomas 7y ago

How about mandatory jail time for anyone removing personal items during an emergency evacuation.

bottled_poe 7y ago
It does seem like those individuals are culpable for the deaths that occurred in this incident and perhaps will be charged. edit: removed "criminally" as it seems that this would be a civil case.
- ptaipale 7y ago
  Depends on jurisdiction, but I think in most countries it's a crime to not adhere to aviation safety regulations - including ignoring what the staff tells you to do in an emergency. Smoking in the lavatories, or standing up and refusing to sit down when you don't want to travel with someone - that results in criminal liability.
  - rjsw 7y ago
    There was a report of people being taken off a flight a few days ago for refusing to listen to the safety announcements. They were sitting in an exit row.
    - ptaipale 7y ago
      Yes, this was in NZ a few days ago. There are also several cases over recent years where immigration activists have been standing up in a plane when they wanted to stop the deportation of criminals. Result is usually fines (a criminal liability) and maybe ending up on a no-fly list (which is then not a criminal justice issue).
      - slyall 7y ago
        The passengers in the New Zealand flight were jerks but one of them said: "I have to say that if watching the safety video is so crucial and you can be escorted off the plane, maybe Air New Zealand should stop making 'Rachel Hunter ice cream ad' safety videos," the passenger said. in reference to the the way Air New Zealand makes their videos with more an aim of going viral on youtube than getting across a safety message. Their last video was actually withdrawn because people hated it so much.

ultrarunner 7y ago

My five year old often struggles with compliance until someone explains "why." I suspect that adults aren't much different except for a stronger ability to suppress that reaction. Maybe, as the fine article mentions, rethinking safety briefings to include language that implies solid reasoning would lead to focus in the event of a disaster like this. After all, it's completely understandable to be thinking only of oneself in a high-stress, unexpected, and possibly life-threatening circumstance. Including brief supportive reasoning reminding people of others' safety might have positive effects.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

asclepi 7y ago

As usual in aviation, you cannot make a decision without impacting a lot of other stuff, this case is no different. For example, on certain aircraft models with limited OH space, a number of luggage OH bins - especially towards the extreme ends of the cabins as that is where the FA stations are - store emergency equipment as well. https://i2.wp.com/thepointsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Delta-Airbus-A220-C-Series-CS100-Preview-at-ATL-emergency-gear-overhead.jpg https://i2.wp.com/thepointsguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/1... - an extreme example on Delta to prove the point, usually they store smaller emergency items. If you decide to lock the bins, then either you have to sacrifice OH space and reconfigure the bins to move the emergency equipment to exclusive bins, re-certify the plane (as it involves emergency equipment) and re-train cabin crew to never store any emergency gear in the other bins. Or, keep the bin configuration as it is, but don't lock the ones storing emergency equipment while you lock the others, and face a situation where pax in the extreme ends of the cabins - where emergency exits happen to be as well - can still get their stuff, which may encourage others to pry their bins open and lose a lot of time.