4 ms·

I wonder if that's a permanent change? If someone indiscriminantly flags for a while, but then slows down, will their flags begin to be counted again?

stcredzero 16y ago
Doing that opens the system to being gamed easily. If the penalty is temporary, then a large number of logins can be acquired and scripted to enable down-voting cabals. If the penalty is permanent, then new accounts with sufficient karma would need to be "farmed."
- hugh3 16y ago
  Downvoting cabals are no worse a problem than upvoting cabals; probably actually less bad. And I think pg said he's running some cabal detection.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    No, downvote cabals are worse. They are also harder to detect. Note that the distance from 1 to -4 is much less than the distance from 1 to 99.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      I can easily see the point of an upvoting cabal -- you'd use it to get your stories onto the front page. And you'd only need five accounts in order to do that quite successfully. What's the point of a downvoting cabal? To allow you to severely punish comments you don't like? Sounds petty even by internet standards. And if you do manage to get a comment down to -4, then I notice that comments in severely negative territory which aren't obviously awful tend to get rescued anyway.
      - memetichazard 16y ago
        See the effect of a downvoting cabal on Digg here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1579444 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1579444 Upvoting a story keeps it on the front page longer. Downvoting a story makes it disappear before people can see it.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  Maybe pg's spam controls are just excellent, but it really doesn't look like HN is being gamed too hard. There are the usual serial self-promoter/spammers (the kind that submit everything they post, regardless of quality), but I really haven't seen that many problems. Perhaps we shouldn't be as worried about flags being abused.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    I think we should be worried. From what I've seen on reddit, downvote abuse seems much worse than upvote abuse. Flag abuse would be much the same as downvote abuse. The power of upvote cabals is often dwarfed by the will of the majority. Downvote cabals can prevent material from being seen by the majority, so they are inherently more powerful. (The distance from 1 to -5 is much less than 1 to 99.)
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]

stcredzero 16y ago

Doing that opens the system to being gamed easily. If the penalty is temporary, then a large number of logins can be acquired and scripted to enable down-voting cabals. If the penalty is permanent, then new accounts with sufficient karma would need to be "farmed."

hugh3 16y ago
Downvoting cabals are no worse a problem than upvoting cabals; probably actually less bad. And I think pg said he's running some cabal detection.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  No, downvote cabals are worse. They are also harder to detect. Note that the distance from 1 to -4 is much less than the distance from 1 to 99.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    I can easily see the point of an upvoting cabal -- you'd use it to get your stories onto the front page. And you'd only need five accounts in order to do that quite successfully. What's the point of a downvoting cabal? To allow you to severely punish comments you don't like? Sounds petty even by internet standards. And if you do manage to get a comment down to -4, then I notice that comments in severely negative territory which aren't obviously awful tend to get rescued anyway.
    - memetichazard 16y ago
      See the effect of a downvoting cabal on Digg here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1579444 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1579444 Upvoting a story keeps it on the front page longer. Downvoting a story makes it disappear before people can see it.
jokermatt999 16y ago
Maybe pg's spam controls are just excellent, but it really doesn't look like HN is being gamed too hard. There are the usual serial self-promoter/spammers (the kind that submit everything they post, regardless of quality), but I really haven't seen that many problems. Perhaps we shouldn't be as worried about flags being abused.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- stcredzero 16y ago
  I think we should be worried. From what I've seen on reddit, downvote abuse seems much worse than upvote abuse. Flag abuse would be much the same as downvote abuse. The power of upvote cabals is often dwarfed by the will of the majority. Downvote cabals can prevent material from being seen by the majority, so they are inherently more powerful. (The distance from 1 to -5 is much less than 1 to 99.)
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]