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the problem with medical service in the US is the prices. We really need cost controls here. The medical industry should be highly regulated in terms of the p

the problem with medical service in the US is the prices. We really need cost controls here. The medical industry should be highly regulated in terms of the prices they can charge.

plainOldText 7y ago
I’m assuming you’re trolling. Having said that, I will address your comment anyway, as I want to counteract the nefarious forces aimed at oversimplifying complexity. There is never just one “problem”. Prices are just the result of various dynamic forces in the market: supply, demand, regulatory burden, availability of capital, technological development, corruption, etc. A competitive market is much more efficient at establishing what to produce and at what cost & price, since pricing is a dynamic process. Some entity establishing prices artificially will lead to market decay. Sadly, the medical services & products markets in the US are not open to much competition, and one consequence of the regulatory burden is that it prevents other companies from entering the market and allows for all sorts of abuses from existing players. Please note that I’m not arguing for no regulation whatsoever, but regulation of the senseless kind is hard to come by.
- samfisher83 7y ago
  Medicine isn't like normal supply and demand. If Apple increases the price of an iphone well you can chose not to buy an iphone. If drug x is what is keeping you alive and they have a patent on it its not like you can't buy the drug. It has pretty inelastic demand. I understand that drug R+D is expensive. The US Government is by far the largest spender of drug R+D in this country.
  - plainOldText 7y ago
    > Medicine isn't like normal supply and demand. Indeed it isn’t, and like you’ve correctly identified, demand is inelastic. But it’s still a market subject to competitive forces, provided they exist. > If drug x is what is keeping you alive and they have a patent on it its not like you can't buy the drug. The drug x did not emerge spontaneously. Someone decided to create it because it was a demand for it and it was an opportunity for profit. Had the research not occurred, the drug wouldn’t have been created at all. So the way I see it, having an expensive drug (I will maybe be kept alive) is preferred to not having it at all (I definitely won't be kept alive). Plus, patents do expire as far as I’m aware. Yes, I understand people want drugs at prices they can afford but this is not solvable by simply price fixing without generating unintended consequences.
    - samfisher83 7y ago
      Except the US government is by far the largest R+D spender in the world. Its not like the drugs it fund become public domain. You don't seem to address that at all.
      - plainOldText 7y ago
        A quick search on Google reveals that the U.S. biomedical industry spends about 3x more than the federal government [1], or about 67% of the total spending, so your claim turns out to be false. [1] https://www.researchamerica.org/sites/default/files/RA-2017_InvestmentReport.pdf https://www.researchamerica.org/sites/default/files/RA-2017_...
        samfisher83 7y ago
        Nope the us government is single biggest spender. Your own link tells you that. You are including a bunch of companies together. Please stop spreading fake news. If you include prescription drugs us government spends 329bil. So I think us government is pretty vitial to medicine in this country.
        Whack-kneed 7y ago
        Big Pharm also gets to deduct it's r+d expenses in full. Name an other private industry with that kind of a crutch....
- throwing838383 7y ago
  believe me, I abhor the thought of not having the usual invisible hand determine the outcome of the effects of supply and demand. But, when your head is bleeding out in an intersection, and you're about to die, it's not the best time to be shopping online for an affordable ambulance. Just so you know, an ambulance ride can cost you 3000 to 5000$ even if it's less than half an hour away.
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    That has nothing to do with the insulin market.
- dang 7y ago
  Personal attacks are not ok on HN, so please don't lead like that. If you really think someone is trolling, please don't feed them, even if they're oversimplifying. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

the problem with medical service in the US is the prices. We really need cost controls here. The medical industry should be highly regulated in terms of the prices they can charge.

plainOldText 7y ago

I’m assuming you’re trolling. Having said that, I will address your comment anyway, as I want to counteract the nefarious forces aimed at oversimplifying complexity. There is never just one “problem”. Prices are just the result of various dynamic forces in the market: supply, demand, regulatory burden, availability of capital, technological development, corruption, etc. A competitive market is much more efficient at establishing what to produce and at what cost & price, since pricing is a dynamic process. Some entity establishing prices artificially will lead to market decay. Sadly, the medical services & products markets in the US are not open to much competition, and one consequence of the regulatory burden is that it prevents other companies from entering the market and allows for all sorts of abuses from existing players. Please note that I’m not arguing for no regulation whatsoever, but regulation of the senseless kind is hard to come by.

samfisher83 7y ago
Medicine isn't like normal supply and demand. If Apple increases the price of an iphone well you can chose not to buy an iphone. If drug x is what is keeping you alive and they have a patent on it its not like you can't buy the drug. It has pretty inelastic demand. I understand that drug R+D is expensive. The US Government is by far the largest spender of drug R+D in this country.
- plainOldText 7y ago
  > Medicine isn't like normal supply and demand. Indeed it isn’t, and like you’ve correctly identified, demand is inelastic. But it’s still a market subject to competitive forces, provided they exist. > If drug x is what is keeping you alive and they have a patent on it its not like you can't buy the drug. The drug x did not emerge spontaneously. Someone decided to create it because it was a demand for it and it was an opportunity for profit. Had the research not occurred, the drug wouldn’t have been created at all. So the way I see it, having an expensive drug (I will maybe be kept alive) is preferred to not having it at all (I definitely won't be kept alive). Plus, patents do expire as far as I’m aware. Yes, I understand people want drugs at prices they can afford but this is not solvable by simply price fixing without generating unintended consequences.
  - samfisher83 7y ago
    Except the US government is by far the largest R+D spender in the world. Its not like the drugs it fund become public domain. You don't seem to address that at all.
    - plainOldText 7y ago
      A quick search on Google reveals that the U.S. biomedical industry spends about 3x more than the federal government [1], or about 67% of the total spending, so your claim turns out to be false. [1] https://www.researchamerica.org/sites/default/files/RA-2017_InvestmentReport.pdf https://www.researchamerica.org/sites/default/files/RA-2017_...
      - samfisher83 7y ago
        Nope the us government is single biggest spender. Your own link tells you that. You are including a bunch of companies together. Please stop spreading fake news. If you include prescription drugs us government spends 329bil. So I think us government is pretty vitial to medicine in this country.
      - Whack-kneed 7y ago
        Big Pharm also gets to deduct it's r+d expenses in full. Name an other private industry with that kind of a crutch....
throwing838383 7y ago
believe me, I abhor the thought of not having the usual invisible hand determine the outcome of the effects of supply and demand. But, when your head is bleeding out in an intersection, and you're about to die, it's not the best time to be shopping online for an affordable ambulance. Just so you know, an ambulance ride can cost you 3000 to 5000$ even if it's less than half an hour away.
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  That has nothing to do with the insulin market.
dang 7y ago
Personal attacks are not ok on HN, so please don't lead like that. If you really think someone is trolling, please don't feed them, even if they're oversimplifying. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html