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I am surprised, but at the same time I'm aware that unfortunately there is an endemic lack of taking responsibility in many modern engineering professions. Soft

I am surprised, but at the same time I'm aware that unfortunately there is an endemic lack of taking responsibility in many modern engineering professions. Software engineering being one of them. I often see by myself and read about other cases elsewhere of examples of badly designed and written software being put in place due to short shortsightedly perceived financial goals of doing so. I bet that every software engineer encountered such software in their career. Were the engineers that created it incompetent? Perhaps, but more likely is that they were put under pressure to deliver such flawed solutions, and people who said no were replaced with those that said yes no matter what. I recently watched a documentary about death penalty and how states couldn't get doctors to design the lethal injection because none would agree to work on it. I envy that doctors can have such integrity, but as a group we engineers have very little when money is involved.

ryandrake 7y ago
> Perhaps, but more likely is that they were put under pressure to deliver such flawed solutions, and people who said no were replaced with those that said yes no matter what. Early in my career I asked to not work on a project on ethical grounds, and my manager said “fine, Ted is fine with doing it, so I’ll assign you to a different project!” Years later I actually quit a job partially over objection to some less than ethical uses of the technology, and the boss never even broke a sweat. There were lines of developers out the door willing to replace me. Software engineering talent is effectively unlimited because we have no professional organization that caps supply, like doctors have. This leads to all kinds of races-to-the-bottom.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Until you get to the top of the accredited safety critical software developers. The cream of the crop. Note there is a supply limiter in the form of accreditation and another of typically requiring years of experience too.
bsder 7y ago
> I am surprised, but at the same time I'm aware that unfortunately there is an endemic lack of taking responsibility in many modern engineering professions. Software engineering being one of them. There is no such thing as "Software Engineer". You can't get a Professional Engineering license for it, nor can you be sued for not adhering to standards. The National Society for Professional Engineers (NSPE) was screaming for years that software people should not be allowed to call themselves engineers. They lost that battle, and here we are with your comment. And the all the resulting issues that the NSPE predicted. > I recently watched a documentary about death penalty and how states couldn't get doctors to design the lethal injection because none would agree to work on it. I envy that doctors can have such integrity, but as a group we engineers have very little when money is involved. This has nothing to do with integrity and everything to do with the fact that you could lose your medical license. You would have to offer a doctor enough money to cover the rest of their career, and states are notoriously cheap.

ryandrake 7y ago

> Perhaps, but more likely is that they were put under pressure to deliver such flawed solutions, and people who said no were replaced with those that said yes no matter what. Early in my career I asked to not work on a project on ethical grounds, and my manager said “fine, Ted is fine with doing it, so I’ll assign you to a different project!” Years later I actually quit a job partially over objection to some less than ethical uses of the technology, and the boss never even broke a sweat. There were lines of developers out the door willing to replace me. Software engineering talent is effectively unlimited because we have no professional organization that caps supply, like doctors have. This leads to all kinds of races-to-the-bottom.

AstralStorm 7y ago
Until you get to the top of the accredited safety critical software developers. The cream of the crop. Note there is a supply limiter in the form of accreditation and another of typically requiring years of experience too.

bsder 7y ago

> I am surprised, but at the same time I'm aware that unfortunately there is an endemic lack of taking responsibility in many modern engineering professions. Software engineering being one of them. There is no such thing as "Software Engineer". You can't get a Professional Engineering license for it, nor can you be sued for not adhering to standards. The National Society for Professional Engineers (NSPE) was screaming for years that software people should not be allowed to call themselves engineers. They lost that battle, and here we are with your comment. And the all the resulting issues that the NSPE predicted. > I recently watched a documentary about death penalty and how states couldn't get doctors to design the lethal injection because none would agree to work on it. I envy that doctors can have such integrity, but as a group we engineers have very little when money is involved. This has nothing to do with integrity and everything to do with the fact that you could lose your medical license. You would have to offer a doctor enough money to cover the rest of their career, and states are notoriously cheap.