5 ms·

Number looks very little, if compared to Russia backing. Russia has whole TV channels backed by FSB, whole troll fabrics, and their own agents even in major Wes

Number looks very little, if compared to Russia backing. Russia has whole TV channels backed by FSB, whole troll fabrics, and their own agents even in major Western media. Why few orders of magnitude greater effort cannot help Russia, while much smaller effort helps USA a lot?

gdy 7y ago
"Number looks very little, if compared to Russia backing. Russia has whole TV channels backed by FSB, whole troll fabrics, and their own agents even in major Western media." [Citation needed]
- v_lisivka 7y ago
  See https://euvsdisinfo.eu/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/ About EU vs Disinformation campaign This website is part of a campaign to better forecast, address and respond to pro-Kremlin disinformation. The ‘EU versus Disinformation’ campaign is run by the European External Action Service East Stratcom Task Force. The team was set up after the EU Heads of State and Government stressed the need to challenge Russia’s ongoing disinformation campaigns in March 2015.
  - gdy 7y ago
    You could have as well given a link to google.com. You have made several specific russophobic claims and I challenge you to substatiate them and not leave that as 'an exercise for the reader'.
    - v_lisivka 7y ago
      These claims are not russophobic. We are at war with Russian Federation for 5 years. It's clearly demonstrates that we have no phobia. They are anti-russian. Please, list claims you are interested to dig in.
      - gdy 7y ago
        Are you aware that in the 2018 Russia is still the main trade partner of the Ukraine despite all russophobic noises coming from Kiev? It clearly contradicts your statement that Russia and the Ukraine are at war. I quoted the sentence that needs factual proofs.
        v_lisivka 7y ago
        Major trade partners of Ukraine in 2018 are: EU(import ~55%/export 45,1%), RF(import 14.3%, export: 7,3%), China(import 12.2%, export 4.3%), USA(import 5.4%/export 2.2%), and so on. > It clearly contradicts your statement that Russia and the Ukraine are at war. No, it displays inertia of two big and complex systems. > I quoted the sentence that needs factual proofs. You got them. The whole site is created by EU and dedicated to disproof Russian propaganda, with links to propaganda narratives and factual materials. For example: https://euvsdisinfo.eu/figure-of-the-week-136000/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/figure-of-the-week-136000/
        gdy 7y ago
        EU is not a country. "it displays inertia of two big and complex systems" Yeah, right, I can imagine the US trading with Japan during the whole war. Oh, wait, no, actually, I cannot. "You got them" That is a lie. Even the link you gave doesn't have to do much with your statement.
        ben_w 7y ago
        > EU is not a country. EU is a weird special case, as it’s more tightly integrated than anything else that isn’t a country, despite not being a country. This was one of the points used by both sides in Brexit. As for the general argument the two of you are having, I no longer think “war” is a useful boolean state, just a political decoration sometimes associated with the use of force against the political interests of another nation (“nation” being another surprisingly fuzzy concept the closer I look).
        7y ago
ben_w 7y ago
Quantity isn’t always the most important quality. The US (and the UK?) seems to present propaganda as something the bad guys do, which is easier to believe if the changes are limited. Limited doesn’t mean unimportant, and it being limited forces focus on important changes. (I’m not assuming competence here: I assume that’s random over time)
- v_lisivka 7y ago
  So, you say, Russia seems to counter-present USA propaganda as something the good guys do? It's looks stupid. Maybe I misunderstood you. Can you say explicitly, who does good propaganda, and who does bad propaganda? Who is good and who is bad?
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Mainly I’m saying that the propaganda produced by the USA says “Propaganda? Us? Please put away your tinfoil hat, only bad guys do that.” I don’t know what Russia’s self-image is, but the impression I have from the outside is that it might as well be “<green frog emoji> Работа для нас в государственной пропагандистской компании <Russian flag emoji>”.
9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
America has the same things besides national TV? Every country has one, I believe America us exception.
dang 7y ago
You have a long history of using HN for political and nationalistic battle, and we've asked you before to stop. This sort of flamewar is not welcome here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19866310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19866310 and marked it off-topic.

gdy 7y ago

"Number looks very little, if compared to Russia backing. Russia has whole TV channels backed by FSB, whole troll fabrics, and their own agents even in major Western media." [Citation needed]

v_lisivka 7y ago
See https://euvsdisinfo.eu/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/ About EU vs Disinformation campaign This website is part of a campaign to better forecast, address and respond to pro-Kremlin disinformation. The ‘EU versus Disinformation’ campaign is run by the European External Action Service East Stratcom Task Force. The team was set up after the EU Heads of State and Government stressed the need to challenge Russia’s ongoing disinformation campaigns in March 2015.
- gdy 7y ago
  You could have as well given a link to google.com. You have made several specific russophobic claims and I challenge you to substatiate them and not leave that as 'an exercise for the reader'.
  - v_lisivka 7y ago
    These claims are not russophobic. We are at war with Russian Federation for 5 years. It's clearly demonstrates that we have no phobia. They are anti-russian. Please, list claims you are interested to dig in.
    - gdy 7y ago
      Are you aware that in the 2018 Russia is still the main trade partner of the Ukraine despite all russophobic noises coming from Kiev? It clearly contradicts your statement that Russia and the Ukraine are at war. I quoted the sentence that needs factual proofs.
      - v_lisivka 7y ago
        Major trade partners of Ukraine in 2018 are: EU(import ~55%/export 45,1%), RF(import 14.3%, export: 7,3%), China(import 12.2%, export 4.3%), USA(import 5.4%/export 2.2%), and so on. > It clearly contradicts your statement that Russia and the Ukraine are at war. No, it displays inertia of two big and complex systems. > I quoted the sentence that needs factual proofs. You got them. The whole site is created by EU and dedicated to disproof Russian propaganda, with links to propaganda narratives and factual materials. For example: https://euvsdisinfo.eu/figure-of-the-week-136000/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/figure-of-the-week-136000/
        gdy 7y ago
        EU is not a country. "it displays inertia of two big and complex systems" Yeah, right, I can imagine the US trading with Japan during the whole war. Oh, wait, no, actually, I cannot. "You got them" That is a lie. Even the link you gave doesn't have to do much with your statement.
        ben_w 7y ago
        > EU is not a country. EU is a weird special case, as it’s more tightly integrated than anything else that isn’t a country, despite not being a country. This was one of the points used by both sides in Brexit. As for the general argument the two of you are having, I no longer think “war” is a useful boolean state, just a political decoration sometimes associated with the use of force against the political interests of another nation (“nation” being another surprisingly fuzzy concept the closer I look).
        7y ago

ben_w 7y ago

Quantity isn’t always the most important quality. The US (and the UK?) seems to present propaganda as something the bad guys do, which is easier to believe if the changes are limited. Limited doesn’t mean unimportant, and it being limited forces focus on important changes. (I’m not assuming competence here: I assume that’s random over time)

v_lisivka 7y ago
So, you say, Russia seems to counter-present USA propaganda as something the good guys do? It's looks stupid. Maybe I misunderstood you. Can you say explicitly, who does good propaganda, and who does bad propaganda? Who is good and who is bad?
- ben_w 7y ago
  Mainly I’m saying that the propaganda produced by the USA says “Propaganda? Us? Please put away your tinfoil hat, only bad guys do that.” I don’t know what Russia’s self-image is, but the impression I have from the outside is that it might as well be “<green frog emoji> Работа для нас в государственной пропагандистской компании <Russian flag emoji>”.

9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago

America has the same things besides national TV? Every country has one, I believe America us exception.

dang 7y ago

You have a long history of using HN for political and nationalistic battle, and we've asked you before to stop. This sort of flamewar is not welcome here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19866310 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19866310 and marked it off-topic.