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Shutting down the Visa and Mastercard probably didn't change too much, but this for sure will. Think of how much eBay is dependent on PayPal for purchases. This

Shutting down the Visa and Mastercard probably didn't change too much, but this for sure will. Think of how much eBay is dependent on PayPal for purchases. This should be an interesting outcome! Even if people don't feel it's morally right, I'm still very impressed by the current "cyber wars" going on. Either way, I don't lose anything. I guess I'm just one of those people that likes to watch the world burn...

CamperBob 16y ago
There isn't going to be any burning. What's going to happen is that banks and CC companies will proactively scrub their client lists for anything that looks even vaguely controversial, and hose it before it blows up in their faces. After this, the banks will be afraid of Anonymous, and they will do whatever it takes to stay off their radar... including turning down a lot of legitimate business. "Politically unconventional" organizations around the world are about to get the same arms-length treatment that adult sites have always gotten.
- antirez 16y ago
  > What's going to happen is that banks and CC companies will proactively scrub their client lists for anything that looks even vaguely controversial That's impossible as it is: too much work, AND, too much lose of income.
- wladimir 16y ago
  Which means that alternative payment systems will rise to fill in the void. And nothing of value was lost...
- petercooper 16y ago
  That's happened with mortgages after the clamping down on banks in the UK. The bailed out banks can't charge interest rates as high as they'd like, so they turn down a lot of less than perfect business. End result is it's harder than ever for normal folk and less reputable banks with far higher charges have stepped in to plug the gap. Idealistic humans never learn anything about economics over time..
- aerique 16y ago
  Or they could just have not closed down Wikileaks' accounts in an attempt to brown-nose the US government. If they had resisted and only closed down the accounts after court orders the reaction would have been quite different. I'm frankly appalled at how many people here are actually defending MasterCard, Visa and PayPal. As if money and shareholder interests are all that matters. There are also examples of companies that don't hand over their clients' information without court orders or give in to political pressure (for example XS4ALL here in the Netherlands) and you know: they are actually appreciated for it and very successful!
  - pokinoi 16y ago
    "MasterCard, Visa and PayPal. As if money and shareholder interests are all that matters." There are millions of jobs and people who depend on these companies everyday. It's not just about money and shareholder interests.
    - aerique 16y ago
      I don't understand your point. If they hadn't disabled Wikileaks' accounts these jobs and people would have suffered how exactly?
      - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
        If they hadn't disabled Wikileaks accounts there would have just been another topic just as controversial that would have gotten a bug up hacker's asses. This isn't a story about Wikileaks. Wikileaks is just the handy example. This is a story about how small numbers of people can have a temper tantrum and produce a global impact. You can't reason backwards and say "well if they just hadn't done X everything would be fine" The parent's point is if they start reasoning like that, they'll just toss out anybody vaguely smelling suspicious (which I also think is the logical result, along with increased black lists of IP addresses)
        aerique 16y ago
        That's just not true. There has neither been a reaction of this kind for other "bugs up hacker's asses" nor has there been an issue this controversial for a very long time. I can't think of any... perhaps the Morris' worm or Kevin Mitnick.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
petercooper 16y ago
You're lucky you don't depend on Paypal for your income like hundreds of thousands of eBayers and people with few other choices (e.g. non US sellers). On the other hand, this will all blow over within days.
- chopsueyar 16y ago
  What is the saying about eggs and baskets?
  - petercooper 16y ago
    Sometimes you have no serious options to spread your risk. Multiple payment systems on a single Web page looks tacky and is an accounting nightmare even if it's doable. On eBay, you could get people to mail you checks but PayPal is by far the most efficient way to sell through them. When it comes to infrastructure, the small guys can't always have backups. Do you have two power companies simultaneously supply your office? Two broadband connections? Yet I believe that someone maliciously cutting off my water or broadband to make a political point is as much in the wrong as someone cutting off my payment provider.

CamperBob 16y ago

There isn't going to be any burning. What's going to happen is that banks and CC companies will proactively scrub their client lists for anything that looks even vaguely controversial, and hose it before it blows up in their faces. After this, the banks will be afraid of Anonymous, and they will do whatever it takes to stay off their radar... including turning down a lot of legitimate business. "Politically unconventional" organizations around the world are about to get the same arms-length treatment that adult sites have always gotten.

antirez 16y ago
> What's going to happen is that banks and CC companies will proactively scrub their client lists for anything that looks even vaguely controversial That's impossible as it is: too much work, AND, too much lose of income.
wladimir 16y ago
Which means that alternative payment systems will rise to fill in the void. And nothing of value was lost...
petercooper 16y ago
That's happened with mortgages after the clamping down on banks in the UK. The bailed out banks can't charge interest rates as high as they'd like, so they turn down a lot of less than perfect business. End result is it's harder than ever for normal folk and less reputable banks with far higher charges have stepped in to plug the gap. Idealistic humans never learn anything about economics over time..
aerique 16y ago
Or they could just have not closed down Wikileaks' accounts in an attempt to brown-nose the US government. If they had resisted and only closed down the accounts after court orders the reaction would have been quite different. I'm frankly appalled at how many people here are actually defending MasterCard, Visa and PayPal. As if money and shareholder interests are all that matters. There are also examples of companies that don't hand over their clients' information without court orders or give in to political pressure (for example XS4ALL here in the Netherlands) and you know: they are actually appreciated for it and very successful!
- pokinoi 16y ago
  "MasterCard, Visa and PayPal. As if money and shareholder interests are all that matters." There are millions of jobs and people who depend on these companies everyday. It's not just about money and shareholder interests.
  - aerique 16y ago
    I don't understand your point. If they hadn't disabled Wikileaks' accounts these jobs and people would have suffered how exactly?
    - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
      If they hadn't disabled Wikileaks accounts there would have just been another topic just as controversial that would have gotten a bug up hacker's asses. This isn't a story about Wikileaks. Wikileaks is just the handy example. This is a story about how small numbers of people can have a temper tantrum and produce a global impact. You can't reason backwards and say "well if they just hadn't done X everything would be fine" The parent's point is if they start reasoning like that, they'll just toss out anybody vaguely smelling suspicious (which I also think is the logical result, along with increased black lists of IP addresses)
      - aerique 16y ago
        That's just not true. There has neither been a reaction of this kind for other "bugs up hacker's asses" nor has there been an issue this controversial for a very long time. I can't think of any... perhaps the Morris' worm or Kevin Mitnick.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

petercooper 16y ago

You're lucky you don't depend on Paypal for your income like hundreds of thousands of eBayers and people with few other choices (e.g. non US sellers). On the other hand, this will all blow over within days.

chopsueyar 16y ago
What is the saying about eggs and baskets?
- petercooper 16y ago
  Sometimes you have no serious options to spread your risk. Multiple payment systems on a single Web page looks tacky and is an accounting nightmare even if it's doable. On eBay, you could get people to mail you checks but PayPal is by far the most efficient way to sell through them. When it comes to infrastructure, the small guys can't always have backups. Do you have two power companies simultaneously supply your office? Two broadband connections? Yet I believe that someone maliciously cutting off my water or broadband to make a political point is as much in the wrong as someone cutting off my payment provider.