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But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy kno

But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy known as the EU. It's always better to understand your enemies before you start to insult them. Otherwise your insults just increase polarization, because while people who agree with you will find them obviously true... People on the other side will find them objectively false. And we don't need more polarization nowadays. > inherent beliefs of racial superiority IMO painting all belief in racial differences as racist/fascist (which is what this tends to devolve into) is a great way to ignore actual problems. Problems like medicines being tested on populations of primarily white men and women not always working for african americans or other groups... And of course this is an area where one side is politically correct (no differences below the skin) and another is factually correct (different ethnic groups have significant differences in susceptibility to disease, athletic performance, etc).

eropple 8y ago
> But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy known as the EU. Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? A fascist. This stuff just ain't that hard.
- DuskStar 8y ago
  > Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Christ, man. That's playing dirty - you can't really go "let's ignore that my opponent is literally Hitler, let's talk about all the bad stuff he's doing", because either the fact that he's literally Hitler doesn't matter (and thus shouldn't have been brought up) or he's NOT Hitler, and you're using that to avoid having to defend the statement (and thus shouldn't have been brought up). So, responding. "I wouldn't even rape her" is a great scissor statement. [0] A statement designed to be obviously offensive or inoffensive, true or false - but with people on both sides of the obvious statement. IMO it's sort of like "It's OK to be white". And while I can't really support deploying ideological superweapons, I can certainly see the utility in posting things that cause your opponents to respond in a manner your supporters will find insane. It's not the purely misogynistic statement you seem to be taking it as. (The alternate interpretation, IIRC, would be along the lines of "People are always getting worked up over rape threats - and correctly! Why are they freaking out about the opposite?") Not sure what that has to do with being a white supremacist, of course. (besides the fact that he's biracial... and IIRC if anything a jewish supremacist) > Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? > A fascist. > This stuff just ain't that hard. No, the term is "person". Otherwise the term for Hillary Clinton is "anarchist" or "communist", since by those standards she could be said to be working with (people who work with people who work with...) anarchists or communists. 0: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/
  - iron0013 8y ago
    "Fascist person"?
    - DuskStar 8y ago
      Should we be calling every politician on the left a "communist person" then? I feel like you ignored the entire point there.
ltrls23 8y ago
Oh that's stupid! We (non racist people) know that black people are black and white people are white (biological differences), we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently. (same thing with men and women ;)
- prevedmedved 8y ago
  That's a bald-faced lie. If it were true, you'd be against affirmative action and quotas. Which you're not.
  - ltrls23 8y ago
    I'm not an advocacy for affirmative action and quotas, but I think they were made to "counteract" social discrimination based on race and sex, and not race and sex differences themselves. I think I might say that in an imaginary society without racism and sexism, I would be against affirmative action and quotas! (well there wouldn't be need for them...)
  - DuskStar 8y ago
    Being for or against affirmative action and quotas is kind of orthogonal to being a racist, though? There are certainly racists who support affirmative action, and obviously ones who don't. (for instance, people who think that there is a difference in mean IQ between races, but thinks that affirmative action to compensate would increase societal stability) Similarly, there are people who believe all racial differences are skin deep / stop at the neck who support affirmative action and ones who do not. (For instance, people who think that affirmative action is counterproductive and will lead to racism) There might be a correlation there, but let's not pretend that only two corners of that matrix are populated.
- educationdata 8y ago
  > we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently This is blatantly false. At least different skin color can lead to different treatment in face makeup and portrait photography. Not to mention all sorts of different needs from men and women. Your belief of biological differences should have no impact on social implication cannot be more wrong.

eropple 8y ago

> But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy known as the EU. Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? A fascist. This stuff just ain't that hard.

DuskStar 8y ago
> Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Christ, man. That's playing dirty - you can't really go "let's ignore that my opponent is literally Hitler, let's talk about all the bad stuff he's doing", because either the fact that he's literally Hitler doesn't matter (and thus shouldn't have been brought up) or he's NOT Hitler, and you're using that to avoid having to defend the statement (and thus shouldn't have been brought up). So, responding. "I wouldn't even rape her" is a great scissor statement. [0] A statement designed to be obviously offensive or inoffensive, true or false - but with people on both sides of the obvious statement. IMO it's sort of like "It's OK to be white". And while I can't really support deploying ideological superweapons, I can certainly see the utility in posting things that cause your opponents to respond in a manner your supporters will find insane. It's not the purely misogynistic statement you seem to be taking it as. (The alternate interpretation, IIRC, would be along the lines of "People are always getting worked up over rape threats - and correctly! Why are they freaking out about the opposite?") Not sure what that has to do with being a white supremacist, of course. (besides the fact that he's biracial... and IIRC if anything a jewish supremacist) > Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? > A fascist. > This stuff just ain't that hard. No, the term is "person". Otherwise the term for Hillary Clinton is "anarchist" or "communist", since by those standards she could be said to be working with (people who work with people who work with...) anarchists or communists. 0: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/
- iron0013 8y ago
  "Fascist person"?
  - DuskStar 8y ago
    Should we be calling every politician on the left a "communist person" then? I feel like you ignored the entire point there.

ltrls23 8y ago

Oh that's stupid! We (non racist people) know that black people are black and white people are white (biological differences), we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently. (same thing with men and women ;)

prevedmedved 8y ago
That's a bald-faced lie. If it were true, you'd be against affirmative action and quotas. Which you're not.
- ltrls23 8y ago
  I'm not an advocacy for affirmative action and quotas, but I think they were made to "counteract" social discrimination based on race and sex, and not race and sex differences themselves. I think I might say that in an imaginary society without racism and sexism, I would be against affirmative action and quotas! (well there wouldn't be need for them...)
- DuskStar 8y ago
  Being for or against affirmative action and quotas is kind of orthogonal to being a racist, though? There are certainly racists who support affirmative action, and obviously ones who don't. (for instance, people who think that there is a difference in mean IQ between races, but thinks that affirmative action to compensate would increase societal stability) Similarly, there are people who believe all racial differences are skin deep / stop at the neck who support affirmative action and ones who do not. (For instance, people who think that affirmative action is counterproductive and will lead to racism) There might be a correlation there, but let's not pretend that only two corners of that matrix are populated.
educationdata 8y ago
> we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently This is blatantly false. At least different skin color can lead to different treatment in face makeup and portrait photography. Not to mention all sorts of different needs from men and women. Your belief of biological differences should have no impact on social implication cannot be more wrong.