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I define "fascist" much as Ian Danskin does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=9 https://www.youtube.co

I define "fascist" much as Ian Danskin does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&index=9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng&list=PLJA_jUddXv... Its critical aspects include inherent beliefs of racial superiority and the need to "recapture" a great society lost. And there are plenty on YouTube with large followings. Though some have been banned since. Chud Supreme Carl, "Sargon of Akkad", comes to mind as an example, and one I'm willing to namedrop because 1) he has been banned, and 2) dear Carl is now running for the European Parliament as a member of literal-fascist Ukip.

DuskStar 8y ago
But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy known as the EU. It's always better to understand your enemies before you start to insult them. Otherwise your insults just increase polarization, because while people who agree with you will find them obviously true... People on the other side will find them objectively false. And we don't need more polarization nowadays. > inherent beliefs of racial superiority IMO painting all belief in racial differences as racist/fascist (which is what this tends to devolve into) is a great way to ignore actual problems. Problems like medicines being tested on populations of primarily white men and women not always working for african americans or other groups... And of course this is an area where one side is politically correct (no differences below the skin) and another is factually correct (different ethnic groups have significant differences in susceptibility to disease, athletic performance, etc).
- eropple 8y ago
  > But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy known as the EU. Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? A fascist. This stuff just ain't that hard.
  - DuskStar 8y ago
    > Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Christ, man. That's playing dirty - you can't really go "let's ignore that my opponent is literally Hitler, let's talk about all the bad stuff he's doing", because either the fact that he's literally Hitler doesn't matter (and thus shouldn't have been brought up) or he's NOT Hitler, and you're using that to avoid having to defend the statement (and thus shouldn't have been brought up). So, responding. "I wouldn't even rape her" is a great scissor statement. [0] A statement designed to be obviously offensive or inoffensive, true or false - but with people on both sides of the obvious statement. IMO it's sort of like "It's OK to be white". And while I can't really support deploying ideological superweapons, I can certainly see the utility in posting things that cause your opponents to respond in a manner your supporters will find insane. It's not the purely misogynistic statement you seem to be taking it as. (The alternate interpretation, IIRC, would be along the lines of "People are always getting worked up over rape threats - and correctly! Why are they freaking out about the opposite?") Not sure what that has to do with being a white supremacist, of course. (besides the fact that he's biracial... and IIRC if anything a jewish supremacist) > Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? > A fascist. > This stuff just ain't that hard. No, the term is "person". Otherwise the term for Hillary Clinton is "anarchist" or "communist", since by those standards she could be said to be working with (people who work with people who work with...) anarchists or communists. 0: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/
    - iron0013 8y ago
      "Fascist person"?
      - DuskStar 8y ago
        Should we be calling every politician on the left a "communist person" then? I feel like you ignored the entire point there.
- ltrls23 8y ago
  Oh that's stupid! We (non racist people) know that black people are black and white people are white (biological differences), we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently. (same thing with men and women ;)
  - prevedmedved 8y ago
    That's a bald-faced lie. If it were true, you'd be against affirmative action and quotas. Which you're not.
    - ltrls23 8y ago
      I'm not an advocacy for affirmative action and quotas, but I think they were made to "counteract" social discrimination based on race and sex, and not race and sex differences themselves. I think I might say that in an imaginary society without racism and sexism, I would be against affirmative action and quotas! (well there wouldn't be need for them...)
    - DuskStar 8y ago
      Being for or against affirmative action and quotas is kind of orthogonal to being a racist, though? There are certainly racists who support affirmative action, and obviously ones who don't. (for instance, people who think that there is a difference in mean IQ between races, but thinks that affirmative action to compensate would increase societal stability) Similarly, there are people who believe all racial differences are skin deep / stop at the neck who support affirmative action and ones who do not. (For instance, people who think that affirmative action is counterproductive and will lead to racism) There might be a correlation there, but let's not pretend that only two corners of that matrix are populated.
  - educationdata 8y ago
    > we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently This is blatantly false. At least different skin color can lead to different treatment in face makeup and portrait photography. Not to mention all sorts of different needs from men and women. Your belief of biological differences should have no impact on social implication cannot be more wrong.
ytNumbers 8y ago
You think UKIP is fascist? Wikipedia defines that with the phrase "...dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition...". Many powerful politically inclined groups are forcibly silencing their opponents these days, but UKIP is not among them.
- iron0013 8y ago
  You left out the first part of that sentence, which reads: “Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism...”
  - burfog 8y ago
    On political topics, Wikipedia is extremely untrustworthy. Paid political workers are writing things like that. Lots of definitions have been changing over the past decade or two. Fascism and also Nazi would not normally have included "right-wing" in the definition in the prior century.
- eropple 8y ago
  Yes, I most certainly do. Ukip's belief system is pretty fundamentally palingenetic ultranationalism at its core. (As is "Make America Great Again [By Making Sure White People Win]".) EDIT: but, gosh, I sure can't help but notice the first part of the sentence you cherry-picked: "Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism" - can you tell me why you tried to play dirty pool about that? EDIT 2: ha, sibling poster got there too. Nice, dude.
  - ytNumbers 8y ago
    I suppose UKIP not wanting to submit to their EU bureaucrat overlords makes them radical, right-wing, authoritarian, ultranationalists. Can't someone just finally be sick and tired of all the consequences of EU globalism without being labeled a racist? Sigh... I guess someone has to live for decades in one of the areas worst affected by globalism in order to grasp what has been squandered. For most people, they're not paying the price, so they don't see the problem.
GreaterFool 8y ago
> I define "fascist" I'm sorry, but you don't get to do that! `fascism` already has an established meaning. Please make up a new word for what you believe `fascism` means. Going by the dictionary definition: > 1. a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition > 2. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control This is the exact opposite of Carl's beliefs and agenda. EDIT: how can we have any discussion about anything if everyone gets to define words to mean whatever they want to mean?
- DuskStar 8y ago
  Well, a lot of people seem to have accepted that it's racist to oppose discriminating based on race in college admissions... This would not be the first time in recent memory that a word came to be used for exactly the opposite meaning. I'd love to hear from someone who thinks that that isn't a definition in use today, or that affirmative action wouldn't have been considered prima facie racist a century ago, no matter the races.
- mistermann 8y ago
  > how can we have any discussion about anything if everyone gets to define words to mean whatever they want to mean? Redefining terms has been common on reddit for years now but it is gaining ground here quite steadily. It's pretty disheartening that the mods seem fine with this, perhaps they see it as an ends justifies the means type of thing.
  - GreaterFool 8y ago
    Perhaps it's time to put it in the Terms of Service that blatant disregard for dictionary definitions shall lead to suspension or an outright ban!
    - mistermann 8y ago
bashwizard 8y ago
You can of course define it however you want but that doesn't mean your definition is correct or even close to the actual definition. You see, according to your and Danskin's definition roughly 20% (and it's growing since more political parties are adopting the same politics) of the swedish population are fascist based on last years election where the Sweden Democrats (labeled as racists and fascists in the mainstream media) became the 2nd largest political party. The problem here is that the left is tilting so far left that even centrists are being labeled as far-right these days.

DuskStar 8y ago

But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy known as the EU. It's always better to understand your enemies before you start to insult them. Otherwise your insults just increase polarization, because while people who agree with you will find them obviously true... People on the other side will find them objectively false. And we don't need more polarization nowadays. > inherent beliefs of racial superiority IMO painting all belief in racial differences as racist/fascist (which is what this tends to devolve into) is a great way to ignore actual problems. Problems like medicines being tested on populations of primarily white men and women not always working for african americans or other groups... And of course this is an area where one side is politically correct (no differences below the skin) and another is factually correct (different ethnic groups have significant differences in susceptibility to disease, athletic performance, etc).

eropple 8y ago
> But from "Sargon's" perspective, UKIP isn't fascist - it's the party attempting to remove the UK from the growing, minimally accountable supreme bureaucracy known as the EU. Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? A fascist. This stuff just ain't that hard.
- DuskStar 8y ago
  > Let's assume for a second that Carlgon isn't the misogynistic white supremacist charmer--he of the "I wouldn't even rape her" so recently, lest we forget--that he's made sure everybody knows he is. Let's assume that you are correct and that, gosh, he just doesn't like EU membership. Let's assume all of that. Christ, man. That's playing dirty - you can't really go "let's ignore that my opponent is literally Hitler, let's talk about all the bad stuff he's doing", because either the fact that he's literally Hitler doesn't matter (and thus shouldn't have been brought up) or he's NOT Hitler, and you're using that to avoid having to defend the statement (and thus shouldn't have been brought up). So, responding. "I wouldn't even rape her" is a great scissor statement. [0] A statement designed to be obviously offensive or inoffensive, true or false - but with people on both sides of the obvious statement. IMO it's sort of like "It's OK to be white". And while I can't really support deploying ideological superweapons, I can certainly see the utility in posting things that cause your opponents to respond in a manner your supporters will find insane. It's not the purely misogynistic statement you seem to be taking it as. (The alternate interpretation, IIRC, would be along the lines of "People are always getting worked up over rape threats - and correctly! Why are they freaking out about the opposite?") Not sure what that has to do with being a white supremacist, of course. (besides the fact that he's biracial... and IIRC if anything a jewish supremacist) > Do you know the term for somebody who works with fascists to achieve their goals? > A fascist. > This stuff just ain't that hard. No, the term is "person". Otherwise the term for Hillary Clinton is "anarchist" or "communist", since by those standards she could be said to be working with (people who work with people who work with...) anarchists or communists. 0: https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/10/30/sort-by-controversial/
  - iron0013 8y ago
    "Fascist person"?
    - DuskStar 8y ago
      Should we be calling every politician on the left a "communist person" then? I feel like you ignored the entire point there.
ltrls23 8y ago
Oh that's stupid! We (non racist people) know that black people are black and white people are white (biological differences), we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently. (same thing with men and women ;)
- prevedmedved 8y ago
  That's a bald-faced lie. If it were true, you'd be against affirmative action and quotas. Which you're not.
  - ltrls23 8y ago
    I'm not an advocacy for affirmative action and quotas, but I think they were made to "counteract" social discrimination based on race and sex, and not race and sex differences themselves. I think I might say that in an imaginary society without racism and sexism, I would be against affirmative action and quotas! (well there wouldn't be need for them...)
  - DuskStar 8y ago
    Being for or against affirmative action and quotas is kind of orthogonal to being a racist, though? There are certainly racists who support affirmative action, and obviously ones who don't. (for instance, people who think that there is a difference in mean IQ between races, but thinks that affirmative action to compensate would increase societal stability) Similarly, there are people who believe all racial differences are skin deep / stop at the neck who support affirmative action and ones who do not. (For instance, people who think that affirmative action is counterproductive and will lead to racism) There might be a correlation there, but let's not pretend that only two corners of that matrix are populated.
- educationdata 8y ago
  > we just don't think it's in any way a reason to treat them differently This is blatantly false. At least different skin color can lead to different treatment in face makeup and portrait photography. Not to mention all sorts of different needs from men and women. Your belief of biological differences should have no impact on social implication cannot be more wrong.

ytNumbers 8y ago

You think UKIP is fascist? Wikipedia defines that with the phrase "...dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition...". Many powerful politically inclined groups are forcibly silencing their opponents these days, but UKIP is not among them.

iron0013 8y ago
You left out the first part of that sentence, which reads: “Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism...”
- burfog 8y ago
  On political topics, Wikipedia is extremely untrustworthy. Paid political workers are writing things like that. Lots of definitions have been changing over the past decade or two. Fascism and also Nazi would not normally have included "right-wing" in the definition in the prior century.
eropple 8y ago
Yes, I most certainly do. Ukip's belief system is pretty fundamentally palingenetic ultranationalism at its core. (As is "Make America Great Again [By Making Sure White People Win]".) EDIT: but, gosh, I sure can't help but notice the first part of the sentence you cherry-picked: "Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of radical, right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism" - can you tell me why you tried to play dirty pool about that? EDIT 2: ha, sibling poster got there too. Nice, dude.
- ytNumbers 8y ago
  I suppose UKIP not wanting to submit to their EU bureaucrat overlords makes them radical, right-wing, authoritarian, ultranationalists. Can't someone just finally be sick and tired of all the consequences of EU globalism without being labeled a racist? Sigh... I guess someone has to live for decades in one of the areas worst affected by globalism in order to grasp what has been squandered. For most people, they're not paying the price, so they don't see the problem.

GreaterFool 8y ago

> I define "fascist" I'm sorry, but you don't get to do that! `fascism` already has an established meaning. Please make up a new word for what you believe `fascism` means. Going by the dictionary definition: > 1. a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition > 2. a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control This is the exact opposite of Carl's beliefs and agenda. EDIT: how can we have any discussion about anything if everyone gets to define words to mean whatever they want to mean?

DuskStar 8y ago
Well, a lot of people seem to have accepted that it's racist to oppose discriminating based on race in college admissions... This would not be the first time in recent memory that a word came to be used for exactly the opposite meaning. I'd love to hear from someone who thinks that that isn't a definition in use today, or that affirmative action wouldn't have been considered prima facie racist a century ago, no matter the races.
mistermann 8y ago
> how can we have any discussion about anything if everyone gets to define words to mean whatever they want to mean? Redefining terms has been common on reddit for years now but it is gaining ground here quite steadily. It's pretty disheartening that the mods seem fine with this, perhaps they see it as an ends justifies the means type of thing.
- GreaterFool 8y ago
  Perhaps it's time to put it in the Terms of Service that blatant disregard for dictionary definitions shall lead to suspension or an outright ban!
  - mistermann 8y ago

bashwizard 8y ago

You can of course define it however you want but that doesn't mean your definition is correct or even close to the actual definition. You see, according to your and Danskin's definition roughly 20% (and it's growing since more political parties are adopting the same politics) of the swedish population are fascist based on last years election where the Sweden Democrats (labeled as racists and fascists in the mainstream media) became the 2nd largest political party. The problem here is that the left is tilting so far left that even centrists are being labeled as far-right these days.