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That's because Europeans have their heads in the sand like ostriches about all forms of societal change. I'm a Canadian that just moved back after 4 years in E

That's because Europeans have their heads in the sand like ostriches about all forms of societal change. I'm a Canadian that just moved back after 4 years in Europe, and I found it impossible to have a progressive-minded conversation with most europeans (not all, but much higher ratio than at home) - about feminism, rape culture, about racial discrimination, about unconscious bias, about migration and immigration. Europe has figured out a pretty good well-balanced society for its' citizens, and is incapable of reacting to change. This is why nationalism, racism, and yes - fascism - are on the rise throughout Europe. Because nobody worries about it, and nobody pays attention to it. They just see brown people at the train station, get nervous, and ask no follow-up questions.

orf 7y ago
Who's getting nervous about brown people at train stations? This whole observation seems pretty weird. A foreigner from a different continent finds it hard to talk to most Europeans (because they are all a singular block) about feminism? Don't be ridiculous. They likely just didn't want to talk to you about it, and it sounds as if you laboured on such points a few times. And, depending on how well you knew the people you where talking to, they likely mistook your accent for American (I'm English and this happens even to me), which would certainly affect how people see your views on such topics and would impact their willingness to talk to you about it. All in all, not many people want to talk to American sounding people they might not know very well about issues like their views on feminism or racial discrimination. I see this more as a "you" thing than a "Europe" thing.
- deanCommie 7y ago
  When you have intelligent coworkers that say things like "Most black people in town are drug dealers, so if I see a black person I'm going to assume they're a drug dealer", or "Sexism wasn't a problem in Europe until North America invented it as an issue", and the other Europeans agree and the other North Americans don't, and when this type of thing happens over and over in many circumstances, I come to the conclusion that it's not me. Before you wonder if it's just my coworkers and company. * Person I'm buying a car from 2 hours from my city telling me "It's a good thing you're buying a car from me and not one of them black boys, they rip you off" * Landlord I'm viewing an apartment for saying "I would prefer to rent to a white renter. We have a lot of indians that try to rent and they smell" These kinds of things happened way more in 4 years in Europe than in 20 years in Canada.
thrower123 7y ago
I've only experience with Berlin Germans, but when I lived among them, they were more racist than the good-old-boy-est good-old-boys I knew in northern Appalachia. Just get them started when they had had a few brews about der Türker...
renaudg 7y ago
You have your own head in the sand about something else : most Europeans you spoke to were probably all too familiar with the kind of North American identity politics you were pushing onto them (what you describe as a "progressive-minded conversation"). Most of us (including progressives) find it alien, over the top, polarizing if not sometimes downright harmful and counterproductive. Our choice not to partake is a conscious and informed one. You mention fascism being on the rise throughout Europe because of our supposedly poor understanding of these issues, but the intersectional flavor of progressivism you're advocating hasn't exactly demonstrated it could make society less divided (quite the opposite). In other words, I guess we're not quite prepared to get lectured about fascism by the continent that brought us Trump recently. In fact, this article is a powerful cautionary tale against the backlash that comes with ostracizing young white males. And yes, I'm pretty sure most Europeans shook their head reading the piece of insanity below, thinking "only in America" One morning during first period, a male friend of Sam’s mentioned a meme whose suggestive name was an inside joke between the two of them. Sam laughed. A girl at the table overheard their private conversation, misconstrued it as a sexual reference, and reported it as sexual harassment. Sam’s guidance counselor pulled him out of his next class and accused him of “breaking the law.” Before long, he was in the office of a male administrator who informed him that the exchange was “illegal,” hinted that the police were coming, and delivered him into the custody of the school’s resource officer. At the administrator’s instruction, that man ushered Sam into an empty room, handed him a blank sheet of paper, and instructed him to write a “statement of guilt.” Thanks, but no thanks.
- deanCommie 7y ago
  I'm Canadian, not American, so I take no responsibility for Trump, or American puritanism, nationalism, or divisiveness. The example you mention is apalling, but is just one version of the story. Here's another. One morning during first period, a male friend of Sam’s made a sexual reference to a classmate of theirs using an inside joke. Sam laughed as they both poorly masked their attention on the girl. The girl at the table overheard their private conversation, frustrated with this not being the first time she was harassed by Sam and his friend got fed up, and reported it as sexual harassment. Sam’s guidance counselor, who's already heard about Sam and his coworker being sexually inappropriate in class, pulled Sam out of class and tried to have him have a "come to jesus" moment by taking the situation very seriously and explaining that sexual harassment is a crime. Sam ignored him, defended the comments as "just an inside joke", and was completely dismissive of his role in bullying his female classmates. Before long, he was in the office of a male administrator who doubled down on trying to break through to Sam that the exchange was “illegal,” hinted that the police were coming, and delivered him into the custody of the school’s resource officer. At the administrator’s instruction, that man ushered Sam into an empty room, handed him a blank sheet of paper, and instructed him to write a “statement of guilt.” Is this the truth? Probably not directly. But the truth is somewhere in the middle. The rate of people getting accused of sexual harassment falsely is miniscule - maliciously or accidentally. The rate of people get accused of sexual harassment, and are self-aware enough to understand their role, and admit it is also miniscule. The most common situation is one where the accused simply do not care, and have plausibly deniable excuses for their behaviour, with "IT was just a JOKE" being #1 on the list of excuses. I know, I've been one of them. Historically, teenagers were given a lot of leeway with this - boys will be boys. Society is now dealing with it and saying "No, actually. You can cause real harm, and you need to give a shit about how your actions affect others." Europe and Europeans are simply next.

orf 7y ago

Who's getting nervous about brown people at train stations? This whole observation seems pretty weird. A foreigner from a different continent finds it hard to talk to most Europeans (because they are all a singular block) about feminism? Don't be ridiculous. They likely just didn't want to talk to you about it, and it sounds as if you laboured on such points a few times. And, depending on how well you knew the people you where talking to, they likely mistook your accent for American (I'm English and this happens even to me), which would certainly affect how people see your views on such topics and would impact their willingness to talk to you about it. All in all, not many people want to talk to American sounding people they might not know very well about issues like their views on feminism or racial discrimination. I see this more as a "you" thing than a "Europe" thing.

deanCommie 7y ago
When you have intelligent coworkers that say things like "Most black people in town are drug dealers, so if I see a black person I'm going to assume they're a drug dealer", or "Sexism wasn't a problem in Europe until North America invented it as an issue", and the other Europeans agree and the other North Americans don't, and when this type of thing happens over and over in many circumstances, I come to the conclusion that it's not me. Before you wonder if it's just my coworkers and company. * Person I'm buying a car from 2 hours from my city telling me "It's a good thing you're buying a car from me and not one of them black boys, they rip you off" * Landlord I'm viewing an apartment for saying "I would prefer to rent to a white renter. We have a lot of indians that try to rent and they smell" These kinds of things happened way more in 4 years in Europe than in 20 years in Canada.

thrower123 7y ago

I've only experience with Berlin Germans, but when I lived among them, they were more racist than the good-old-boy-est good-old-boys I knew in northern Appalachia. Just get them started when they had had a few brews about der Türker...

renaudg 7y ago

You have your own head in the sand about something else : most Europeans you spoke to were probably all too familiar with the kind of North American identity politics you were pushing onto them (what you describe as a "progressive-minded conversation"). Most of us (including progressives) find it alien, over the top, polarizing if not sometimes downright harmful and counterproductive. Our choice not to partake is a conscious and informed one. You mention fascism being on the rise throughout Europe because of our supposedly poor understanding of these issues, but the intersectional flavor of progressivism you're advocating hasn't exactly demonstrated it could make society less divided (quite the opposite). In other words, I guess we're not quite prepared to get lectured about fascism by the continent that brought us Trump recently. In fact, this article is a powerful cautionary tale against the backlash that comes with ostracizing young white males. And yes, I'm pretty sure most Europeans shook their head reading the piece of insanity below, thinking "only in America" One morning during first period, a male friend of Sam’s mentioned a meme whose suggestive name was an inside joke between the two of them. Sam laughed. A girl at the table overheard their private conversation, misconstrued it as a sexual reference, and reported it as sexual harassment. Sam’s guidance counselor pulled him out of his next class and accused him of “breaking the law.” Before long, he was in the office of a male administrator who informed him that the exchange was “illegal,” hinted that the police were coming, and delivered him into the custody of the school’s resource officer. At the administrator’s instruction, that man ushered Sam into an empty room, handed him a blank sheet of paper, and instructed him to write a “statement of guilt.” Thanks, but no thanks.

deanCommie 7y ago
I'm Canadian, not American, so I take no responsibility for Trump, or American puritanism, nationalism, or divisiveness. The example you mention is apalling, but is just one version of the story. Here's another. One morning during first period, a male friend of Sam’s made a sexual reference to a classmate of theirs using an inside joke. Sam laughed as they both poorly masked their attention on the girl. The girl at the table overheard their private conversation, frustrated with this not being the first time she was harassed by Sam and his friend got fed up, and reported it as sexual harassment. Sam’s guidance counselor, who's already heard about Sam and his coworker being sexually inappropriate in class, pulled Sam out of class and tried to have him have a "come to jesus" moment by taking the situation very seriously and explaining that sexual harassment is a crime. Sam ignored him, defended the comments as "just an inside joke", and was completely dismissive of his role in bullying his female classmates. Before long, he was in the office of a male administrator who doubled down on trying to break through to Sam that the exchange was “illegal,” hinted that the police were coming, and delivered him into the custody of the school’s resource officer. At the administrator’s instruction, that man ushered Sam into an empty room, handed him a blank sheet of paper, and instructed him to write a “statement of guilt.” Is this the truth? Probably not directly. But the truth is somewhere in the middle. The rate of people getting accused of sexual harassment falsely is miniscule - maliciously or accidentally. The rate of people get accused of sexual harassment, and are self-aware enough to understand their role, and admit it is also miniscule. The most common situation is one where the accused simply do not care, and have plausibly deniable excuses for their behaviour, with "IT was just a JOKE" being #1 on the list of excuses. I know, I've been one of them. Historically, teenagers were given a lot of leeway with this - boys will be boys. Society is now dealing with it and saying "No, actually. You can cause real harm, and you need to give a shit about how your actions affect others." Europe and Europeans are simply next.