4 ms·

Molly’s significantly more dangerous than acid or psilocybin, no?

by ketzo 8y ago

llamataboot 8y ago
It has possibly more negative health effects when abused (or, possibly maybe, even regularly used). It also seems to have a goldmine of beneficial therapeutic effects that we haven't seen before. And as with nearly all of these things - alcohol, tobacco, and prison are all much worse for you.
- voldacar 8y ago
  Emphasis on possibly: Olney's lesions have never once been observed in a human being
  - llamataboot 8y ago
    yes, definitely - it probably has something more similar to the safety profile of amphetamines in terms of physical safety, which isn't perfect, but seems to not worry RXing adderall to large swaths of people. Though it also seems there is something going on neurotransmitter wise that seems to have a more marked effect on immediate anhedonia/depression/fatigue in the aftermath and anecdotally for some people that starts looking a little cumulative. (ie; someone that uses a lot of MDMA for a few years finds that the depressive hangovers get worse and worse and eventually get to the point where it takes a few months of non-use to even get totally 'right' again)
s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago
It's kind of apples to oranges. Neither have bad direct side-effects, but they should be taken knowing what you're going into. Acid you should know that you'll need a good two days free to really enjoy yourself. The first 12 hours will be an intense mental journey. The next day or so is used to recover as you'll be mentally exhausted. If it's your first time though, you may not know how to handle it, so you'll need a guide. That's the biggest risk when taking acid, you need the emotional intelligence or you'll have a horrific time. MDMA is a much shorter trip and everything will be good, no matter your state of mind. The risk with MDMA is after the trip. You'll be drained of your serotonin so you'll feel fatigued and depressed. It's recommended to take 5-HTP supplements to rebuild your serotonin. Also don't take anymore MDMA for a couple months, I usually wait 3-5 months at least. tldr: you won't want to abuse Acid because it's so exhausting, you'll want to abuse MDMA because it's so wonderful. Like any drug, you need self control.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- mirimir 8y ago
  That's great advice.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    Thanks, I've been contemplating writing articles for my blog about safe tripping for various drugs. I just wasn't sure if there was interest.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
The danger of MDMA is overstated. From an actual chemical toxicity standpoint it's relatively safe, accidental overdose would be next to impossible. You can have a gram in one go (average dose is somewhere around 80-250 mg), and although you'd probably feel pretty sick, you'll be fine. Even the danger for dehydration/overhydration is overstated. Heatstroke is a danger when using it during the day in summer (e.g. at festivals), but that's more due to people not listening to their bodies and not knowing when to stop and take a break and get some shade/water. Anecdotally it's a pretty safe drug. The main danger is generally "molly" (which I think is a really cringy name) that's not actually pure MDMA, but is instead laced with PMA or other more dangerous substances which are cheaper and easier to manufacture and import. That's not to say that there isn't danger of harm and potential for abuse. Just that it's overstated by politicians and the police as a scare tactic. Most of the potential harm from MDMA can be mitigated with good education.
- richrichardsson 8y ago
  > You can have a gram in one go (average dose is somewhere around 80-250 mg), and although you'd probably feel pretty sick, you'll be fine. This is incredibly irresponsible advice. 125mg (1/8g) of pure mdma is a good dose, more likely won't kill you, but you'll be far from fine. > Most of the potential harm from MDMA can be mitigated with good education. How about starting off by not saying a gram is a sensible dose.
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    I'm not suggesting that people do it, which is why I said you'd probably feel pretty sick. Nowhere did I suggest that a gram was a sensible dose, or even a dose that anybody should be taking.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  You're spreading dangerous nonsense here. E-Tards are commonplace in the EDM scene. Participants were so aware of the negative effects they preloaded with multivitamins and antioxidant cocktails to try mitigate them when I last attended raves years ago. I'm not generally one to tell people to avoid recreational drugs, but MDMA overdoses are no joke, especially if you're exceptionally smart. The greater your mental capacity, the more you'll notice the damage when it's taken away.
newnewpdro 8y ago
Yes. It's trivial to overdose non-lethally on MDMA and there's a good possibility for permanent brain damage when it occurs, even just from a single overdose. It seems to mostly damage memory from what I've seen. Years ago when I knew people attending EDM festivals and researched these drugs to understand the risks, it sounded like most of the harm was caused by oxidative stress resulting from the excess serotonin released by the drug vs. normally sufficient standard levels of antioxidants being overwhelmed by all the activity. AFAIK the same is not true for LSD and shrooms, certainly not marijuana.
- DaiPlusPlus 7y ago
  Further damage is done from the brain overheating - which is likely when one is energetically dancing for hours in an enclosed nightclub.
xorfish 8y ago
Yes, but the danger is much closer to caffeine than alcohol or tobacco.
yboris 8y ago
Ecstasy 'no more dangerous than horse riding' Taking ecstasy is no more dangerous than riding a horse, according to the head of the Government's drug advisory body. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4537874/Ecstasy-no-more-dangerous-than-horse-riding.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/453787...
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  No more dangerous than riding a horse = not unlikely to put a novice in the hospital Don't get me wrong. I think modern society has way too little tolerance for risk of physical harm but "less dangerous than horse riding" isn't all that safe as far as indoor activities go.
  - yboris 7y ago
    The comparison is meant to tug at people's intuitions: people let their daughters ride horses. So unless we're about to outlaw horse riding, we ought to not outlaw ecstasy.

Molly’s significantly more dangerous than acid or psilocybin, no?

by ketzo 8y ago

Molly’s significantly more dangerous than acid or psilocybin, no?

It has possibly more negative health effects when abused (or, possibly maybe, even regularly used). It also seems to have a goldmine of beneficial therapeutic effects that we haven't seen before. And as with nearly all of these things - alcohol, tobacco, and prison are all much worse for you.

voldacar 8y ago
Emphasis on possibly: Olney's lesions have never once been observed in a human being
- llamataboot 8y ago
  yes, definitely - it probably has something more similar to the safety profile of amphetamines in terms of physical safety, which isn't perfect, but seems to not worry RXing adderall to large swaths of people. Though it also seems there is something going on neurotransmitter wise that seems to have a more marked effect on immediate anhedonia/depression/fatigue in the aftermath and anecdotally for some people that starts looking a little cumulative. (ie; someone that uses a lot of MDMA for a few years finds that the depressive hangovers get worse and worse and eventually get to the point where it takes a few months of non-use to even get totally 'right' again)

s_y_n_t_a_x 8y ago

It's kind of apples to oranges. Neither have bad direct side-effects, but they should be taken knowing what you're going into. Acid you should know that you'll need a good two days free to really enjoy yourself. The first 12 hours will be an intense mental journey. The next day or so is used to recover as you'll be mentally exhausted. If it's your first time though, you may not know how to handle it, so you'll need a guide. That's the biggest risk when taking acid, you need the emotional intelligence or you'll have a horrific time. MDMA is a much shorter trip and everything will be good, no matter your state of mind. The risk with MDMA is after the trip. You'll be drained of your serotonin so you'll feel fatigued and depressed. It's recommended to take 5-HTP supplements to rebuild your serotonin. Also don't take anymore MDMA for a couple months, I usually wait 3-5 months at least. tldr: you won't want to abuse Acid because it's so exhausting, you'll want to abuse MDMA because it's so wonderful. Like any drug, you need self control.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mirimir 8y ago
That's great advice.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  Thanks, I've been contemplating writing articles for my blog about safe tripping for various drugs. I just wasn't sure if there was interest.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

The danger of MDMA is overstated. From an actual chemical toxicity standpoint it's relatively safe, accidental overdose would be next to impossible. You can have a gram in one go (average dose is somewhere around 80-250 mg), and although you'd probably feel pretty sick, you'll be fine. Even the danger for dehydration/overhydration is overstated. Heatstroke is a danger when using it during the day in summer (e.g. at festivals), but that's more due to people not listening to their bodies and not knowing when to stop and take a break and get some shade/water. Anecdotally it's a pretty safe drug. The main danger is generally "molly" (which I think is a really cringy name) that's not actually pure MDMA, but is instead laced with PMA or other more dangerous substances which are cheaper and easier to manufacture and import. That's not to say that there isn't danger of harm and potential for abuse. Just that it's overstated by politicians and the police as a scare tactic. Most of the potential harm from MDMA can be mitigated with good education.

richrichardsson 8y ago
> You can have a gram in one go (average dose is somewhere around 80-250 mg), and although you'd probably feel pretty sick, you'll be fine. This is incredibly irresponsible advice. 125mg (1/8g) of pure mdma is a good dose, more likely won't kill you, but you'll be far from fine. > Most of the potential harm from MDMA can be mitigated with good education. How about starting off by not saying a gram is a sensible dose.
- toomanybeersies 8y ago
  I'm not suggesting that people do it, which is why I said you'd probably feel pretty sick. Nowhere did I suggest that a gram was a sensible dose, or even a dose that anybody should be taking.
newnewpdro 8y ago
You're spreading dangerous nonsense here. E-Tards are commonplace in the EDM scene. Participants were so aware of the negative effects they preloaded with multivitamins and antioxidant cocktails to try mitigate them when I last attended raves years ago. I'm not generally one to tell people to avoid recreational drugs, but MDMA overdoses are no joke, especially if you're exceptionally smart. The greater your mental capacity, the more you'll notice the damage when it's taken away.

newnewpdro 8y ago

Yes. It's trivial to overdose non-lethally on MDMA and there's a good possibility for permanent brain damage when it occurs, even just from a single overdose. It seems to mostly damage memory from what I've seen. Years ago when I knew people attending EDM festivals and researched these drugs to understand the risks, it sounded like most of the harm was caused by oxidative stress resulting from the excess serotonin released by the drug vs. normally sufficient standard levels of antioxidants being overwhelmed by all the activity. AFAIK the same is not true for LSD and shrooms, certainly not marijuana.

DaiPlusPlus 7y ago
Further damage is done from the brain overheating - which is likely when one is energetically dancing for hours in an enclosed nightclub.

xorfish 8y ago

Yes, but the danger is much closer to caffeine than alcohol or tobacco.

yboris 8y ago

Ecstasy 'no more dangerous than horse riding' Taking ecstasy is no more dangerous than riding a horse, according to the head of the Government's drug advisory body. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/4537874/Ecstasy-no-more-dangerous-than-horse-riding.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/453787...

dsfyu404ed 7y ago
No more dangerous than riding a horse = not unlikely to put a novice in the hospital Don't get me wrong. I think modern society has way too little tolerance for risk of physical harm but "less dangerous than horse riding" isn't all that safe as far as indoor activities go.
- yboris 7y ago
  The comparison is meant to tug at people's intuitions: people let their daughters ride horses. So unless we're about to outlaw horse riding, we ought to not outlaw ecstasy.