4 ms·

Tesla's software lead is so big it should worry other automakers, AI expert says

21 points by evo_9 8y ago

S_A_P 8y ago
I parsed that headline as Tesla's AI software expertise far exceeds other automakers, but after reading seems he was talking about their devops/CI model, which I would say is accurate when qualified against other automakers. The one point that I think would be debatable is if he meant their self driving/AI software being far ahead of automakers. If you limited to automobile manufacturers that again could be true, but its my understanding that alphabet seems to be have the self driving software advantage.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
  >alphabet seems to be have the self driving software advantage Can you elaborate?
- DeonPenny 8y ago
  Nope if you look at Lexs omplete talks even his talks on AI at MIT. He runs their AV research center they believe Tesla is much much farther along. Waymo even kind of admitted it at MIT. Their strategy is to use LIDAR a crutch until they can collect enough data to make camera only work.
ljw1001 8y ago
does anyone think the constant stream of tesla "news" is more than tesla-orchestrated promotion? This is company with a seemingly endless series of difficulties and a seemingly endless series of puff-pieces. Sorry. I meant independent, objective, spontaneously occurring flattering press.
- vr46 8y ago
  Yes.
- rasz 8y ago
  Hard to be impartial when you have been promised $500K worth of free cars https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-roadster-free-killed-referral-program/ https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-roadster-free-killed-re...
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
    Do you realize that the automotive is the #1 spender on advertising, with a $50 billions yearly budget according to Publicis[0]. It spent $9 billions in 2018 just for digital ads – a minor channel for auto brands, up 17.3% year over year[1]. Note that car reviewers often accept to review new cars only when the manufacturing company has signed an deal for advertising campaigns with a sister company of the media organization. Also, media generates far more clicks with scandal-mongering headlines > clicks > ads views/impressions for auto advertisers > revenue for the publisher > exclusive car reviews > clicks > etc. Tesla's marketing activities are just a drop in the ocean: no ad budget, a few official social media account, a referral program limited to Tesla owners, and a few product reveals. [0] https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/tv-networks-beware-auto-ad-spending-slow-a-crawl/316850 https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/tv-networks-beware-au... (calc: 35.5/.76) [1] https://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Auto-Industry-Middle-of-Robust-Digital-Ad-Spending-Growth/1014049 https://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Auto-Industry-Middle-of...
    - rasz 8y ago
      Doesnt change the fact _this_ particular blogger personally holds a paper promising him $500K worth of supercars .. if, and only if Tesla doesnt bo under before releasing Roadster somewhere in 2021-2022. Id say half a million dollars is enough to make you strongly biased.
- woodandsteel 8y ago
  Check out the source of this article, electrek.co. It has lots of Tesla pieces, but they are all substantive. The reasons there are so many Tesla stories is that Tesla is doing lots of things, including lots of things no one else has done.
Someone 8y ago
”He went on to explain how most cars can’t do over-the-air software updates other than to the infotainment system.” Can’t or don’t want to? Other car manufacturers have dealer networks that they want to stay friends with (that may be a bad choice, but it isn’t a software lead for Tesla) ”Tesla also introduced software update signatures to protect its vehicles against hacking not that long ago.” IMO, not signing software updates is a huge no-no, and has been for at least since 2010 (and that’s being generous) So, only starting to do that “Not that long ago”, for me, is not a sign of having a big lead.
- jillesvangurp 8y ago
  There's a bit more to this. E.g. German manufacturers work with hundreds of suppliers for components that go into cars and share some of those suppliers with other manufacturers. These components often include software. E.g. Bosch produces engine components that comes with all sorts of complicated software. So, a car you buy from e.g. BMW comes with all sorts of software that BMW does not control directly. Updating the in car software means updating dozens of different systems from all sorts of suppliers and quite a big project to coordinate. Also these suppliers consider this software to be their core asset and it might appear in several cars from competing vendors. In practice updates do not happen unless absolutely unavoidable. Once a car reaches market, the software is basically frozen in time. There may be minor patches when suppliers provide critical updates that require the car to be serviced but that's about the scope of it. And even those may never reach most customers. There's also the issue of certification and safety regulations that makes things more complicated. Tesla does as much as possible in house. They are emulating Apple by controlling hardware and software and are able to move faster this way than other manufacturers and they can support older models as long as they want.
- DeonPenny 8y ago
  They can't they don't integrate and build all their electronics the same way. They are basically like apple phone. custom software and electronics top to bottom. Most cars just buy systems.
m463 8y ago
I think he's right. They copied apple in this respect - they support old products, and update them continuously. If you'd like to see the kinds of things that have changed over the years, this thread documents them: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-software-firmware-changelog.10820/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-software-fir... Some changes are significant improvements. Just try and find the UI to one of the original model S cars from 2012 and compare it to the current one. Sort of like looking at old 90's websites and then modern ones. That said, Tesla collects a lot of data from it's users, and the latest round of UI changes have annoyed a great deal of people...

21 points by evo_9 8y ago

I parsed that headline as Tesla's AI software expertise far exceeds other automakers, but after reading seems he was talking about their devops/CI model, which I would say is accurate when qualified against other automakers. The one point that I think would be debatable is if he meant their self driving/AI software being far ahead of automakers. If you limited to automobile manufacturers that again could be true, but its my understanding that alphabet seems to be have the self driving software advantage.

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
>alphabet seems to be have the self driving software advantage Can you elaborate?
DeonPenny 8y ago
Nope if you look at Lexs omplete talks even his talks on AI at MIT. He runs their AV research center they believe Tesla is much much farther along. Waymo even kind of admitted it at MIT. Their strategy is to use LIDAR a crutch until they can collect enough data to make camera only work.

ljw1001 8y ago

does anyone think the constant stream of tesla "news" is more than tesla-orchestrated promotion? This is company with a seemingly endless series of difficulties and a seemingly endless series of puff-pieces. Sorry. I meant independent, objective, spontaneously occurring flattering press.

vr46 8y ago
Yes.
rasz 8y ago
Hard to be impartial when you have been promised $500K worth of free cars https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-roadster-free-killed-referral-program/ https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-roadster-free-killed-re...
- rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
  Do you realize that the automotive is the #1 spender on advertising, with a $50 billions yearly budget according to Publicis[0]. It spent $9 billions in 2018 just for digital ads – a minor channel for auto brands, up 17.3% year over year[1]. Note that car reviewers often accept to review new cars only when the manufacturing company has signed an deal for advertising campaigns with a sister company of the media organization. Also, media generates far more clicks with scandal-mongering headlines > clicks > ads views/impressions for auto advertisers > revenue for the publisher > exclusive car reviews > clicks > etc. Tesla's marketing activities are just a drop in the ocean: no ad budget, a few official social media account, a referral program limited to Tesla owners, and a few product reveals. [0] https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/tv-networks-beware-auto-ad-spending-slow-a-crawl/316850 https://adage.com/article/cmo-strategy/tv-networks-beware-au... (calc: 35.5/.76) [1] https://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Auto-Industry-Middle-of-Robust-Digital-Ad-Spending-Growth/1014049 https://www.emarketer.com/Article/US-Auto-Industry-Middle-of...
  - rasz 8y ago
    Doesnt change the fact _this_ particular blogger personally holds a paper promising him $500K worth of supercars .. if, and only if Tesla doesnt bo under before releasing Roadster somewhere in 2021-2022. Id say half a million dollars is enough to make you strongly biased.
woodandsteel 8y ago
Check out the source of this article, electrek.co. It has lots of Tesla pieces, but they are all substantive. The reasons there are so many Tesla stories is that Tesla is doing lots of things, including lots of things no one else has done.

Someone 8y ago

”He went on to explain how most cars can’t do over-the-air software updates other than to the infotainment system.” Can’t or don’t want to? Other car manufacturers have dealer networks that they want to stay friends with (that may be a bad choice, but it isn’t a software lead for Tesla) ”Tesla also introduced software update signatures to protect its vehicles against hacking not that long ago.” IMO, not signing software updates is a huge no-no, and has been for at least since 2010 (and that’s being generous) So, only starting to do that “Not that long ago”, for me, is not a sign of having a big lead.

jillesvangurp 8y ago
There's a bit more to this. E.g. German manufacturers work with hundreds of suppliers for components that go into cars and share some of those suppliers with other manufacturers. These components often include software. E.g. Bosch produces engine components that comes with all sorts of complicated software. So, a car you buy from e.g. BMW comes with all sorts of software that BMW does not control directly. Updating the in car software means updating dozens of different systems from all sorts of suppliers and quite a big project to coordinate. Also these suppliers consider this software to be their core asset and it might appear in several cars from competing vendors. In practice updates do not happen unless absolutely unavoidable. Once a car reaches market, the software is basically frozen in time. There may be minor patches when suppliers provide critical updates that require the car to be serviced but that's about the scope of it. And even those may never reach most customers. There's also the issue of certification and safety regulations that makes things more complicated. Tesla does as much as possible in house. They are emulating Apple by controlling hardware and software and are able to move faster this way than other manufacturers and they can support older models as long as they want.
DeonPenny 8y ago
They can't they don't integrate and build all their electronics the same way. They are basically like apple phone. custom software and electronics top to bottom. Most cars just buy systems.

m463 8y ago

I think he's right. They copied apple in this respect - they support old products, and update them continuously. If you'd like to see the kinds of things that have changed over the years, this thread documents them: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-software-firmware-changelog.10820/ https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-s-software-fir... Some changes are significant improvements. Just try and find the UI to one of the original model S cars from 2012 and compare it to the current one. Sort of like looking at old 90's websites and then modern ones. That said, Tesla collects a lot of data from it's users, and the latest round of UI changes have annoyed a great deal of people...