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This is a really ignorant blog post about the accusations against Assange. Read my comments, I'm a huge supporter of what wikileaks is doing, but more triviali

This is a really ignorant blog post about the accusations against Assange. Read my comments, I'm a huge supporter of what wikileaks is doing, but more trivializing of this situation is not what we need. There is a lot of misinformation about the case out there. There is most likely interference from various intelligence agencies working the press in order to continue that misinformation. But there are also some potentially very serious charges being made. We don't nearly know enough about the facts of what happened to make any assumptions either way about any parties involved. Any serious attempt to research the case results in many widely conflicting stories. So I would suggest we stick to the work that Wikileaks is doing, and not get caught up in the tabloid scandal the media has made this to be.

jacquesm 16y ago
> There is a lot of misinformation about the case out there. Care to share ?
- il 16y ago
  Well, for one, Assange is not only being charged with the obscure Swedish law of "sex by surprise", which is having sex without a condom, but also with rape.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    Yes, I heard about that one (it's hard not to). This is an interesting read I think: (apologies for the source) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Supporters-dismissed-rape-accusations-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange--women-involved-tell-different-story.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Su...
  - brown9-2 16y ago
    Assange is not only being charged with the obscure Swedish law of "sex by surprise" He isn't being charged with this because it doesn't exist: First things first: According to the Swedish criminal code, there is no "broken condom law," nor is there a law against having consensual unprotected sex. (Unlike the U.S., anything not listed in the code could still be considered a crime, but only by "special legislation.") In the Swedish warrant for Assange's arrest, both of his accusers said that they had separate consensual sexual encounters with Assange that became nonconsensual after he refused to use a condom or replace a broken one. ... Prior to the complaint, rumors were swirling that Assange was being charged not with rape but an obscure Swedish law against "sex by surprise," which is likewise nowhere to be found in Sweden's criminal code. Perhaps why this misinformation is being spread so easily: Swedish blogger Linea at Feminism and Tea attributes the confusion to a mix-up over a colloquialism for rape: "Sex by surprise" or överraskningssex as it would be translated in Swedish is slang for rape. It is a term that is used when speaking about rape, but jokingly, or keeping it light, a word that brings with it positive connotations, which makes the word inappropriate in itself, but it is nevertheless synonymous with rape. Source: "STDs, Broken Condoms, and ‘Sex by Surprise’: A Primer on the Charges Against Assange" http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/crayfish_parties_and_broken_co.html http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/crayfish_parties_and_br...
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      The part that confuses me (and that seems to be corroborated by the victims tweets and other interviews) is that instead of going to the police right away after this 'rape' (in quotes for now, until convicted) is that they did not seem at all concerned with it afterwards. Typically a rape victim does not throw a party in honor of their attackers, nor do they tweet about them as 'the coolest people in the world'. Another bothering item is that when you sleep with people that are known to 'get around' (as in does not have a fixed place to stay) you have to wonder if you're successful at hooking up with them on the first night if you're the only one they've done that with (if someone is 'easy' you're 'easy' too) and that increases the risks of STDs regardless. Condoms or not, this is risky behavior. Last but not least, the risk of STD transmission runs both ways and it is possible to have yourself tested as well. I hope that we can count on Sweden to pursue every case of injustice against Swedish nationals this vigorously from now on, it would be nice to see how this case stacks up in terms of evidence and circumstances compared with other cases. If this is typical of the Swedish prosecutors then more power to them for being thorough, if it is not then the chances that there are more things here than meet the eye will go up.
      - brown9-2 16y ago
        From the article I linked to above: A research project last year funded by the European Commission found that Sweden leads Europe in reports of rape, with 46.5 per every 100,000 citizens, compared with 36 in No. 2 Iceland and 26 in England and Wales. At the same time, Sweden’s 10 percent conviction rate for rape is among Europe's lowest. So it would seem like no, the prosecutors haven't always been so vigorous. Sweden certainly seems to have it's issues with punishing sexual assault, but I'm not sure if we should really let things like that influence our judgement of this case until all the facts are known.
      - erikpukinskis 16y ago
        Typically a rape victim does not throw a party in honor of their attackers, nor do they tweet about them as 'the coolest people in the world'. The party was organized, and that tweet went out before the alleged incidents: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40551118/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40551118/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in...
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- cdr 16y ago
  There is a ton of misinformation and confusion out there. This is the most clear-headed piece I've seen about the charges: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207 And on the smearing of the alleged victims: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/07/julian_assange_rape_accuser_smeared/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/07/julia...
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    I'd seen the reuters one but not the salon piece. Thanks!
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    The more you dig, the more you find: http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange-r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/ http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange... (Assanges .au lawyer, obviously biased). http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-rape-allegations-freedom-of-speech http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-rape-a... http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/09/rundle-r-pe-case-complainant-has-left-sweden-may-have-ceased-co-operating/ http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/09/rundle-r-pe-case-complai...
    - cdr 16y ago
      Incredibly, sickeningly biased.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
petercooper 16y ago
This is a really ignorant blog post about the accusations against Assange. I don't think it's even ignorant; more a random meaningless train of thought filled with non sequiturs, an extended version of what you see people writing on Facebook or IRC when they're drunk. Seemed an obvious "flag" case to me, it's even filed under "General Nonsense."
- brown9-2 16y ago
  Yes, it is ignorant - he makes claims about the country and legal system of Sweden based upon falsehoods and inaccuracies about the charges against Assange ("if your condom breaks, that's jail time").
russellallen 16y ago
We should also be careful when discussing the case not to fall into the trap of demonising the women involved, based on little or no available evidence, just because we like Assange and approve of what Wikileaks is doing. Reasonable doubt is rational. But I'm seeing a lot of misogynistic attacks elsewhere on the Interwebs, and they're irrational and counterproductive, as well as being icky. This article is good: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/rape-claims-julian-assange?CMP=twt_gu http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/rape-claims-juli...
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  Indeed. I have several friends already who are too caught up in him and what he's doing to even consider he could be guilty- and I suspect one of them may even feel that guilty or not, he shouldn't be prosecuted.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    At a minimum he's guilty of stupidity and being a douchebag at that. Neither of those are illegal. The only real questions I have at this point is if this is the 'norm' for this kind of offense in Sweden and if there is a hidden agenda to have him extradited to the US. If this is the norm and Sweden would normally handle cases like this in exactly this way and if there is no hidden agenda (ironically, only wikileaks will probably ever tell us that) then there is no problem. It's funny how 'cablegate' probably causes a lot of cables that are far more interesting than the ones actually released.
    - etherael 16y ago
      WRT the degree to which this is 'normal procedure' for swedish criminal investigations; http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1979095 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1979095
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        Interesting, I can't find any articles about that in the news and the only reference in google to the quote is the HN comment! Would be nice to find some other link confirming that story.
brown9-2 16y ago
I'm amazed that a pretty basic plea to withhold judgement about an investigation until it's been completed and all of the facts are released is getting downvoted so heavily here. Why?
- jacquesm 16y ago
  I think that people are conflating the concerted attack on WikiLeaks with the case against Assange, wikileaks is not helping in this respect by reminding everybody with regularity of the connection between the two. All this of course only holds water if in the end it turns out that the 'other side' also keeps things nicely separated.
  - danenania 16y ago
    Because there is obviously a connection between the two.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      Proof ?

jacquesm 16y ago

> There is a lot of misinformation about the case out there. Care to share ?

il 16y ago
Well, for one, Assange is not only being charged with the obscure Swedish law of "sex by surprise", which is having sex without a condom, but also with rape.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Yes, I heard about that one (it's hard not to). This is an interesting read I think: (apologies for the source) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Supporters-dismissed-rape-accusations-WikiLeaks-founder-Julian-Assange--women-involved-tell-different-story.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1307137/Su...
- brown9-2 16y ago
  Assange is not only being charged with the obscure Swedish law of "sex by surprise" He isn't being charged with this because it doesn't exist: First things first: According to the Swedish criminal code, there is no "broken condom law," nor is there a law against having consensual unprotected sex. (Unlike the U.S., anything not listed in the code could still be considered a crime, but only by "special legislation.") In the Swedish warrant for Assange's arrest, both of his accusers said that they had separate consensual sexual encounters with Assange that became nonconsensual after he refused to use a condom or replace a broken one. ... Prior to the complaint, rumors were swirling that Assange was being charged not with rape but an obscure Swedish law against "sex by surprise," which is likewise nowhere to be found in Sweden's criminal code. Perhaps why this misinformation is being spread so easily: Swedish blogger Linea at Feminism and Tea attributes the confusion to a mix-up over a colloquialism for rape: "Sex by surprise" or överraskningssex as it would be translated in Swedish is slang for rape. It is a term that is used when speaking about rape, but jokingly, or keeping it light, a word that brings with it positive connotations, which makes the word inappropriate in itself, but it is nevertheless synonymous with rape. Source: "STDs, Broken Condoms, and ‘Sex by Surprise’: A Primer on the Charges Against Assange" http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/crayfish_parties_and_broken_co.html http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/12/crayfish_parties_and_br...
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    The part that confuses me (and that seems to be corroborated by the victims tweets and other interviews) is that instead of going to the police right away after this 'rape' (in quotes for now, until convicted) is that they did not seem at all concerned with it afterwards. Typically a rape victim does not throw a party in honor of their attackers, nor do they tweet about them as 'the coolest people in the world'. Another bothering item is that when you sleep with people that are known to 'get around' (as in does not have a fixed place to stay) you have to wonder if you're successful at hooking up with them on the first night if you're the only one they've done that with (if someone is 'easy' you're 'easy' too) and that increases the risks of STDs regardless. Condoms or not, this is risky behavior. Last but not least, the risk of STD transmission runs both ways and it is possible to have yourself tested as well. I hope that we can count on Sweden to pursue every case of injustice against Swedish nationals this vigorously from now on, it would be nice to see how this case stacks up in terms of evidence and circumstances compared with other cases. If this is typical of the Swedish prosecutors then more power to them for being thorough, if it is not then the chances that there are more things here than meet the eye will go up.
    - brown9-2 16y ago
      From the article I linked to above: A research project last year funded by the European Commission found that Sweden leads Europe in reports of rape, with 46.5 per every 100,000 citizens, compared with 36 in No. 2 Iceland and 26 in England and Wales. At the same time, Sweden’s 10 percent conviction rate for rape is among Europe's lowest. So it would seem like no, the prosecutors haven't always been so vigorous. Sweden certainly seems to have it's issues with punishing sexual assault, but I'm not sure if we should really let things like that influence our judgement of this case until all the facts are known.
    - erikpukinskis 16y ago
      Typically a rape victim does not throw a party in honor of their attackers, nor do they tweet about them as 'the coolest people in the world'. The party was organized, and that tweet went out before the alleged incidents: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40551118/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in_security/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40551118/ns/us_news-wikileaks_in...
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
cdr 16y ago
There is a ton of misinformation and confusion out there. This is the most clear-headed piece I've seen about the charges: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207 http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B669H20101207 And on the smearing of the alleged victims: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/07/julian_assange_rape_accuser_smeared/index.html http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2010/12/07/julia...
- jacquesm 16y ago
  I'd seen the reuters one but not the salon piece. Thanks!
- jacquesm 16y ago
  The more you dig, the more you find: http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange-r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/ http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange... (Assanges .au lawyer, obviously biased). http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-rape-allegations-freedom-of-speech http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/08/wikileaks-rape-a... http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/09/rundle-r-pe-case-complainant-has-left-sweden-may-have-ceased-co-operating/ http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/09/rundle-r-pe-case-complai...
  - cdr 16y ago
    Incredibly, sickeningly biased.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

petercooper 16y ago

This is a really ignorant blog post about the accusations against Assange. I don't think it's even ignorant; more a random meaningless train of thought filled with non sequiturs, an extended version of what you see people writing on Facebook or IRC when they're drunk. Seemed an obvious "flag" case to me, it's even filed under "General Nonsense."

brown9-2 16y ago
Yes, it is ignorant - he makes claims about the country and legal system of Sweden based upon falsehoods and inaccuracies about the charges against Assange ("if your condom breaks, that's jail time").

russellallen 16y ago

We should also be careful when discussing the case not to fall into the trap of demonising the women involved, based on little or no available evidence, just because we like Assange and approve of what Wikileaks is doing. Reasonable doubt is rational. But I'm seeing a lot of misogynistic attacks elsewhere on the Interwebs, and they're irrational and counterproductive, as well as being icky. This article is good: http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/rape-claims-julian-assange?CMP=twt_gu http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/rape-claims-juli...

sliverstorm 16y ago
Indeed. I have several friends already who are too caught up in him and what he's doing to even consider he could be guilty- and I suspect one of them may even feel that guilty or not, he shouldn't be prosecuted.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  At a minimum he's guilty of stupidity and being a douchebag at that. Neither of those are illegal. The only real questions I have at this point is if this is the 'norm' for this kind of offense in Sweden and if there is a hidden agenda to have him extradited to the US. If this is the norm and Sweden would normally handle cases like this in exactly this way and if there is no hidden agenda (ironically, only wikileaks will probably ever tell us that) then there is no problem. It's funny how 'cablegate' probably causes a lot of cables that are far more interesting than the ones actually released.
  - etherael 16y ago
    WRT the degree to which this is 'normal procedure' for swedish criminal investigations; http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1979095 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1979095
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      Interesting, I can't find any articles about that in the news and the only reference in google to the quote is the HN comment! Would be nice to find some other link confirming that story.

brown9-2 16y ago

I'm amazed that a pretty basic plea to withhold judgement about an investigation until it's been completed and all of the facts are released is getting downvoted so heavily here. Why?

jacquesm 16y ago
I think that people are conflating the concerted attack on WikiLeaks with the case against Assange, wikileaks is not helping in this respect by reminding everybody with regularity of the connection between the two. All this of course only holds water if in the end it turns out that the 'other side' also keeps things nicely separated.
- danenania 16y ago
  Because there is obviously a connection between the two.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    Proof ?