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I'm impressed with the direction Google is taking, and how they've pivoted in the face of public awareness of privacy concerns. I like the Google products and

I'm impressed with the direction Google is taking, and how they've pivoted in the face of public awareness of privacy concerns. I like the Google products and services that I use. There are some that I miss (Reader) and some that just confuse me (Bookmarks), but the core works for me. Based on commentary I've seen, I may be the only person on Hacker News to think so. Regardless, I'm hopeful for the future.

kitotik 8y ago
Google pivoted? When? And from what to what? Still a company that collects and sells consumer data and ads right?
- neogodless 8y ago
  Technically "we do not sell your data" ;) "We just have your data, and sell promises to show you exquisitely targeted ads based on our exhaustive data about you."
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    That is not a technicality; it is a completely different thing. I would definitely stop using Google if they actually sold my data. I don’t mind them using it for ad targeting.
    - umeshunni 8y ago
      Sure, but as seen many times in the comments here, even 'technical' HN posters seem to not understand the differece.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  Generally, Google does not sell personal data. They use personal data to sell ads.
  - antpls 8y ago
    They also forward personal data to government agencies when asked, like it or not.
    - djakjxnanjak 8y ago
      So does the phone company, right? This seems like something everybody should know before they send a text message.
      - fjp 8y ago
        which is why you use iMessage whenever possible
        bduerst 7y ago
        Doesn't matter if you're a Chinese user on an iPhone: >Fast forward to today: China Telecom, a government owned telco, is taking over the iCloud data from Guizhou-Cloud Big Data. This essentially means that a state-owned firm now has access to all the iCloud data China-based users store, such as photos, notes, emails, and text messages. https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-data/ https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-d...
        fjp 7y ago
        You don't have to back anything up to iCloud. You can keep on your locked device and backup elsewhere. My point was that iMessage is an easy way to have your default mode of messaging be E2E encrypted
    - bduerst 7y ago
      So does every other company when subpoenaed by the government. If they didn't comply, we would be complaining how a corporation feels they are above the law.
- ahnick 8y ago
  Yes, but now in some of the use cases they demoed the data itself never leaves the device. The AI models are running directly on the device, so there is no need to transmit user data to cloud servers. This is on contrast to all of their apps running in the cloud and your data living centrally off device. I find this new approach to be a nice balance for user privacy and the necessity of data aggregation in order for the models to be constructed.
  - cle 8y ago
    Did they say that the data never leaves the device? Just because it's local inference doesn't mean it doesn't leave the device. They have a strong incentive to call home with the transcripts/metadata to improve their model on you. I haven't had the time to wade through the barrage of information Google has put out in the last few days (ironically)...did they explicitly say that?
    - farisjarrah 8y ago
      The explicitly stated in the presentation that all AI modeling data is processes on device, and then only anonymized lessons learned are sent back to google.
reaperducer 8y ago
how they've pivoted in the face of public awareness of privacy concerns. Can you provide some more information about this pivot? I haven't noticed it, and I thought I was paying attention.
- jvagner 8y ago
  Kinda the whole point of the linked article of this thread.
groovybits 8y ago
FWIW, I agree with this sentiment. Google did not need to give this stance at I/O. It appears that they're being as transparent as they can about the fact that our data is their business model. I get it: our online privacy is important. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to remain truly anonymous on the Internet, and this is mostly thanks to Google. However, the converse could be Google using our data for malicious purposes. Has there been any evidence of that? I have not seen any. I believe we live in an age of online convenience, and not just for the average user. Google generally makes security-conscious products, especially with Chrome. Heuristics has proven to become very effective in combating online malicious behavior. By establishing our identities with Google, Google can generally say "we are who we say we are" with a degree of confidence, without us having to do much of anything. This is generally bad from a privacy stand-point, but can be good from a security stand-point. Overall, I think Google has done good things for the Internet. But good things sometimes come at a cost, and sometimes third party companies want that cost paid in a way we do not agree with. I think Google is doing all they can to make that point clear.
- abc_lisper 8y ago
  The force of the wind hits you less when you already bend in its direction. When the privacy laws are put in place, which they will be, Google will escape most of the wrath. This is just getting their affairs in order for the inevitable.
- britch 8y ago
  > the converse could be Google using our data for malicious purposes. Has there been any evidence of that? I have not seen any. You are right. I have not seen any evidence of this yet either. What frightens me is that IF something happens and Google is compelled or chooses to give that data to an entity to use maliciously there will be nothing we can do. As I look at it: It is dangerous for that much data about that many people to exist in one place period.
  - groovybits 7y ago
    I look at it this way: What is your threat model? What do you stand to lose if: * Google shuts down tomorrow? * Google turns into a malicious conspirator tomorrow? * Google's databases are compromised by a separate malicious party tomorrow? Each of these can have different outcomes for your data. Do you wish to mitigate, avoid, or accept that risk? Likewise, what do you stand to gain from using Google services? AKA, do you get substance out of their services in exchange for the information you're giving them? Everyone can have different answers to these questions. If you choose not to use Google services, more power to you. I simply encourage everyone to think about their threat model critically, and make an educated decision - rather than hopping on a bandwagon.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
scarejunba 8y ago
Me too. Their stuff just works and where it doesn't, I want to give it more of my data.
telltruth 7y ago
I'm having hard to time to share your enthusiasm. Google has been leveraging its monopoly more than ever and myself as customer feels our arm getting twisted all the time. They shut down products arbitrarily, most of the time with FU on your face. The quality of main search has been massively in decline with they ignoring most of my keywords and putting generic links all the time. I'm sure they are delusional that this is not the case. Lot of Google products are becoming 2nd rate or even 3rd rate but because of their special treatment on Android and other properties you would be forced to use them anyway. Overall, I don't think Google was the innovative company it used to be. They are mostly in business of milking their monopoly to increase shareholder value.
jessedotexe 7y ago
I agree with you. Google isn't a shining knight of consumer rights and privacy but I don't think they are as bad as every thinks. They offer a lot of customization for tracking and the ability to turn it off. They don't do anything hyper anti-consumer(IMO) and provide me very good products at either a low price or at the cost of my data(which I'm willing to pay with). I don't see all the reason for the hate, but it is there, and I'm glad they are taking steps to be more privacy aware.

kitotik 8y ago

Google pivoted? When? And from what to what? Still a company that collects and sells consumer data and ads right?

neogodless 8y ago
Technically "we do not sell your data" ;) "We just have your data, and sell promises to show you exquisitely targeted ads based on our exhaustive data about you."
- umanwizard 8y ago
  That is not a technicality; it is a completely different thing. I would definitely stop using Google if they actually sold my data. I don’t mind them using it for ad targeting.
  - umeshunni 8y ago
    Sure, but as seen many times in the comments here, even 'technical' HN posters seem to not understand the differece.
TulliusCicero 8y ago
Generally, Google does not sell personal data. They use personal data to sell ads.
- antpls 8y ago
  They also forward personal data to government agencies when asked, like it or not.
  - djakjxnanjak 8y ago
    So does the phone company, right? This seems like something everybody should know before they send a text message.
    - fjp 8y ago
      which is why you use iMessage whenever possible
      - bduerst 7y ago
        Doesn't matter if you're a Chinese user on an iPhone: >Fast forward to today: China Telecom, a government owned telco, is taking over the iCloud data from Guizhou-Cloud Big Data. This essentially means that a state-owned firm now has access to all the iCloud data China-based users store, such as photos, notes, emails, and text messages. https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-data/ https://mashable.com/article/china-government-apple-icloud-d...
        fjp 7y ago
        You don't have to back anything up to iCloud. You can keep on your locked device and backup elsewhere. My point was that iMessage is an easy way to have your default mode of messaging be E2E encrypted
  - bduerst 7y ago
    So does every other company when subpoenaed by the government. If they didn't comply, we would be complaining how a corporation feels they are above the law.
ahnick 8y ago
Yes, but now in some of the use cases they demoed the data itself never leaves the device. The AI models are running directly on the device, so there is no need to transmit user data to cloud servers. This is on contrast to all of their apps running in the cloud and your data living centrally off device. I find this new approach to be a nice balance for user privacy and the necessity of data aggregation in order for the models to be constructed.
- cle 8y ago
  Did they say that the data never leaves the device? Just because it's local inference doesn't mean it doesn't leave the device. They have a strong incentive to call home with the transcripts/metadata to improve their model on you. I haven't had the time to wade through the barrage of information Google has put out in the last few days (ironically)...did they explicitly say that?
  - farisjarrah 8y ago
    The explicitly stated in the presentation that all AI modeling data is processes on device, and then only anonymized lessons learned are sent back to google.

reaperducer 8y ago

how they've pivoted in the face of public awareness of privacy concerns. Can you provide some more information about this pivot? I haven't noticed it, and I thought I was paying attention.

jvagner 8y ago
Kinda the whole point of the linked article of this thread.

groovybits 8y ago

FWIW, I agree with this sentiment. Google did not need to give this stance at I/O. It appears that they're being as transparent as they can about the fact that our data is their business model. I get it: our online privacy is important. It is becoming increasingly more difficult to remain truly anonymous on the Internet, and this is mostly thanks to Google. However, the converse could be Google using our data for malicious purposes. Has there been any evidence of that? I have not seen any. I believe we live in an age of online convenience, and not just for the average user. Google generally makes security-conscious products, especially with Chrome. Heuristics has proven to become very effective in combating online malicious behavior. By establishing our identities with Google, Google can generally say "we are who we say we are" with a degree of confidence, without us having to do much of anything. This is generally bad from a privacy stand-point, but can be good from a security stand-point. Overall, I think Google has done good things for the Internet. But good things sometimes come at a cost, and sometimes third party companies want that cost paid in a way we do not agree with. I think Google is doing all they can to make that point clear.

abc_lisper 8y ago
The force of the wind hits you less when you already bend in its direction. When the privacy laws are put in place, which they will be, Google will escape most of the wrath. This is just getting their affairs in order for the inevitable.
britch 8y ago
> the converse could be Google using our data for malicious purposes. Has there been any evidence of that? I have not seen any. You are right. I have not seen any evidence of this yet either. What frightens me is that IF something happens and Google is compelled or chooses to give that data to an entity to use maliciously there will be nothing we can do. As I look at it: It is dangerous for that much data about that many people to exist in one place period.
- groovybits 7y ago
  I look at it this way: What is your threat model? What do you stand to lose if: * Google shuts down tomorrow? * Google turns into a malicious conspirator tomorrow? * Google's databases are compromised by a separate malicious party tomorrow? Each of these can have different outcomes for your data. Do you wish to mitigate, avoid, or accept that risk? Likewise, what do you stand to gain from using Google services? AKA, do you get substance out of their services in exchange for the information you're giving them? Everyone can have different answers to these questions. If you choose not to use Google services, more power to you. I simply encourage everyone to think about their threat model critically, and make an educated decision - rather than hopping on a bandwagon.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

scarejunba 8y ago

Me too. Their stuff just works and where it doesn't, I want to give it more of my data.

telltruth 7y ago

I'm having hard to time to share your enthusiasm. Google has been leveraging its monopoly more than ever and myself as customer feels our arm getting twisted all the time. They shut down products arbitrarily, most of the time with FU on your face. The quality of main search has been massively in decline with they ignoring most of my keywords and putting generic links all the time. I'm sure they are delusional that this is not the case. Lot of Google products are becoming 2nd rate or even 3rd rate but because of their special treatment on Android and other properties you would be forced to use them anyway. Overall, I don't think Google was the innovative company it used to be. They are mostly in business of milking their monopoly to increase shareholder value.

jessedotexe 7y ago

I agree with you. Google isn't a shining knight of consumer rights and privacy but I don't think they are as bad as every thinks. They offer a lot of customization for tracking and the ability to turn it off. They don't do anything hyper anti-consumer(IMO) and provide me very good products at either a low price or at the cost of my data(which I'm willing to pay with). I don't see all the reason for the hate, but it is there, and I'm glad they are taking steps to be more privacy aware.