5 ms·

Why complain to uber ? It's the driver's fault. What would be the corrective action anyway ? That none of their drivers ever make any mistake ?

clucas 7y ago
An analogy: Why complain to BP when one of their employees hits the wrong button and blows up an oil rig, spilling massive amounts of oil into the Gulf of Mexico? It's the employee's fault. The reason to hold an employer liable for an employee's actions when acting in the course of employment is that this creates good incentives for the employer to institute good policies and procedures, and proper discipline of employees when they are on the job. This is a well-established legal doctrine called "respondeat superior." Now, the $100 question: are Uber drivers employees? And in either case, how much liability flows up to Uber for a driver's malfeasance? I believe that's still unsettled, but I don't think it's just as simple as "if you have a problem with a driver, that's on the driver, not on Uber." Uber should have some responsibility for establishing standards for their drivers, and they should be held responsible when they are breached.
- sametmax 7y ago
  I see Uber more like providing the network and the app, not like the service provider. The service is provided by an independant contracter on which Uber has little control over. In fact, a lot of drivers use several apps like Uber, and sometime even contract privately. Imagine the same incident happen, but suddenly the Uber app crashes. You ask for a ride again, but on Lyft, but it's the same car arriving. Now what ? Lyft is responsible ?
  - danShumway 7y ago
    Yes. At that point you would be using Lyft, with an expectation that they vetted their drivers and would protect you from common problems. If I mess up your food at Wendy's, the fact that I happen to also work at McDonald's doesn't change anything. As a business, you are definitely liable for independent contractors you hire -- that's gotten hammered into me hard at every place I've ever worked. To poke a hole in the service provider argument, think about the experience of buying something from a real service provider. Stripe charges me fees to move my money around. That's it -- they don't choose the price of the item, they don't change my fees depending on whether or not the item was shipped or delivered digitally. My Internet service provider charges me a flat fee or a usage-based fee depending on how much Internet I use. Similarly, if I want to advertise on a billboard, I pay for the billboard -- not a percentage of each sale I make. Even in the Internet advertising business, I pay for impressions, and clickthroughs -- not for what happens after a customer is connected to me. In short, you pay for the thing you buy, and companies are liable for the thing they sell you. Stripe is liable if they mess up transferring money, since that's what they charged me for. They're not liable if my item gets shipped wrong, because they tangibly, observably didn't have anything to do with that. So on Uber, the price is fixed by the app and I'm charged based on the distance I travel. Drivers don't set the price-per-mile, Uber does. Uber then directly collects money from me based on the distance I traveled, and separately pays a percentage to the driver after the fact. Optionally, I can tip the driver just like I would tip a normal taxi driver. That doesn't sound like Uber is charging a fee to connect me to someone. It's not a fixed monthly payment to use the app -- it's not based on whether or not the driver uses the Uber GPS or how much data they use. I'm not paying per ride-request. I'm paying Uber for the ride itself. It's a direct mirror of how I'm charged for a normal taxi. So I'm contacting Uber and saying, "I want a ride", and they're charging me directly for a ride, based on attributes of the ride itself and not based on my usage of the app -- and then they want to claim that they're somehow not involved at all when something goes wrong with that ride? No, I am buying a ride from Uber, not from the contractor, and thus Uber is responsible for the quality of that ride.
- hjk05 7y ago
  Uber drivers are not employees of Uber. It’s more like finding a plumber on craigslist and then suing them for damages caused by the plumber.
aetherson 7y ago
The corrective action would be that Uber pays for the dress, obviously. Where does this philosophy of yours end? "Well, yes, that cop did kill your son, when your son was unarmed and innocent. Why complain to the police department? It was the officer's fault. What would be the corrective action, anyway? That no police officer ever makes a mistake?"
mikeash 7y ago
The same reason I complain to any other company when I have a problem with their service: it’s their responsibility and they are the ones who can make it right. Why would I complain to the driver?

clucas 7y ago

An analogy: Why complain to BP when one of their employees hits the wrong button and blows up an oil rig, spilling massive amounts of oil into the Gulf of Mexico? It's the employee's fault. The reason to hold an employer liable for an employee's actions when acting in the course of employment is that this creates good incentives for the employer to institute good policies and procedures, and proper discipline of employees when they are on the job. This is a well-established legal doctrine called "respondeat superior." Now, the $100 question: are Uber drivers employees? And in either case, how much liability flows up to Uber for a driver's malfeasance? I believe that's still unsettled, but I don't think it's just as simple as "if you have a problem with a driver, that's on the driver, not on Uber." Uber should have some responsibility for establishing standards for their drivers, and they should be held responsible when they are breached.

sametmax 7y ago
I see Uber more like providing the network and the app, not like the service provider. The service is provided by an independant contracter on which Uber has little control over. In fact, a lot of drivers use several apps like Uber, and sometime even contract privately. Imagine the same incident happen, but suddenly the Uber app crashes. You ask for a ride again, but on Lyft, but it's the same car arriving. Now what ? Lyft is responsible ?
- danShumway 7y ago
  Yes. At that point you would be using Lyft, with an expectation that they vetted their drivers and would protect you from common problems. If I mess up your food at Wendy's, the fact that I happen to also work at McDonald's doesn't change anything. As a business, you are definitely liable for independent contractors you hire -- that's gotten hammered into me hard at every place I've ever worked. To poke a hole in the service provider argument, think about the experience of buying something from a real service provider. Stripe charges me fees to move my money around. That's it -- they don't choose the price of the item, they don't change my fees depending on whether or not the item was shipped or delivered digitally. My Internet service provider charges me a flat fee or a usage-based fee depending on how much Internet I use. Similarly, if I want to advertise on a billboard, I pay for the billboard -- not a percentage of each sale I make. Even in the Internet advertising business, I pay for impressions, and clickthroughs -- not for what happens after a customer is connected to me. In short, you pay for the thing you buy, and companies are liable for the thing they sell you. Stripe is liable if they mess up transferring money, since that's what they charged me for. They're not liable if my item gets shipped wrong, because they tangibly, observably didn't have anything to do with that. So on Uber, the price is fixed by the app and I'm charged based on the distance I travel. Drivers don't set the price-per-mile, Uber does. Uber then directly collects money from me based on the distance I traveled, and separately pays a percentage to the driver after the fact. Optionally, I can tip the driver just like I would tip a normal taxi driver. That doesn't sound like Uber is charging a fee to connect me to someone. It's not a fixed monthly payment to use the app -- it's not based on whether or not the driver uses the Uber GPS or how much data they use. I'm not paying per ride-request. I'm paying Uber for the ride itself. It's a direct mirror of how I'm charged for a normal taxi. So I'm contacting Uber and saying, "I want a ride", and they're charging me directly for a ride, based on attributes of the ride itself and not based on my usage of the app -- and then they want to claim that they're somehow not involved at all when something goes wrong with that ride? No, I am buying a ride from Uber, not from the contractor, and thus Uber is responsible for the quality of that ride.
hjk05 7y ago
Uber drivers are not employees of Uber. It’s more like finding a plumber on craigslist and then suing them for damages caused by the plumber.

aetherson 7y ago

The corrective action would be that Uber pays for the dress, obviously. Where does this philosophy of yours end? "Well, yes, that cop did kill your son, when your son was unarmed and innocent. Why complain to the police department? It was the officer's fault. What would be the corrective action, anyway? That no police officer ever makes a mistake?"

mikeash 7y ago

The same reason I complain to any other company when I have a problem with their service: it’s their responsibility and they are the ones who can make it right. Why would I complain to the driver?