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It’s interesting to see how differently first aid is taught across countries. Eg the last training I did in the US (California), I was surprised by two things t

by GuiA 7y ago

It’s interesting to see how differently first aid is taught across countries. Eg the last training I did in the US (California), I was surprised by two things that I had not encountered when I was trained in France: - a big concern around pathogens - always have gloves with you and put them on when administering first aid especially if the person is bleeding; use a mouth dam for mouth to mouth and if you don’t have one don’t do mouth to mouth, just chest compressions, etc - training first aid responders around what to do when a person needing medical attention tells them not to help because they don’t have health insurance (this point was repeated numerous times by the EMT training us, saying it was routine for them to have to deal with it)

em-bee 7y ago
what are you supposed to if the person claims they have no insurance?
- PeterisP 7y ago
  If the person is able to tell you that they have no insurance, this by itself means they're able to talk reasonably, this means they are conscious and can breathe and so (absent heavy ongoing bleeding e.g. from a gunshot wound) they aren't dying right now - so urgent emergency healthcare isn't really required. If they can move on their own, then they can get to the clinic of their choice themselves if and when they choose to; if they can't (which can be caused by anything from a sprained ankle to a fractured hip) then they still may prefer to be delivered to the hospital by family&friends or a taxi instead of paying thousands for an ambulance delivery.
  - em-bee 7y ago
    good point about using that as an assessment of the persons state of being. they still could be bleeding however which needs to be stopped unless it's just surface scratches, or have broken bones that need temporary stabilizing. it seems other than for the first point the question only becomes relevant after any relevant first-aid actions are completed. i have been in a situation where a guy fell out of his wheelchair. he wasn't injured, he just could not get back into his wheelchair and he was to heavy for any of us to help him without us risking to drop him in the process which might have then actually risked an injury. he looked like the kind of person who might not have had insurance. though he didn't make any statement about that and no-one even considered that to be an issue. we saw no choice but to call 911, which sent an ambulance with people who could help (and they knew him too). i wonder now how we would have reacted if he had told us that he has no insurance. we might have been looking for alternative help with an outcome that could have been good or bad. with that in mind i'd think other than for the reasons you mentioned the statement should be ignored.
Diederich 7y ago
Can you expand on your second point, if you have a moment? I knew someone (in California) who crashed his bicycle on a curb in front of a number of people. He picked himself up and had a bloody but minor wound on his arm. But overall he was unharmed, just some surface bleeding. "Of course" multiple people called 911, and an ambulance arrived in short order. He had insurance, but he wasn't interested in getting in an ambulance, he wanted to look after his bike while wrapping up his light wound, and then treating it later. I'm told the exchange was awkward to say the least.
- HuShifang 7y ago
  Interesting. I'm an American, and once sustained a bloody but minor scrape of my knee when playing basketball in China. I went to the campus clinic/dispensary to obtain some bandages, since I couldn't find any that were the right size at the nearby convenience store; there, the staff practically tried to admit me, telling me that I had sustained a very serious injury and that I needed to take it seriously and start a course of antibiotics. After an awkward conversation concerning my refusal to take antibiotics without (what I deemed to be) sufficient cause (being mindful and wary of the resistance risks of an unnecessary course), and their belief that I was being disrespectful of their medical expertise, I left with a bottle of antibiotic pills that I never took. My knee was as good as new in a week or so. Point being, medical cultures can differ quite a lot, even from locality to locality, and the differences can be seen even in the handling of minor scrapes.
  - Double_a_92 7y ago
    In China it's much more common to take antibiotica for minor reasons. Also big (area wise) skin wounds can get infected even if they are not bleeding.
    - Diederich 7y ago
      Correct me if I'm wrong: I think that a wound that is bleeding is a wound that's, at least in part, being protected from infection by 'internal positive pressure'. My grandpa taught me that; to let wounds bleed freely for a while, if possible, to reduce the chance of infection. I wonder how valid that is.
rndgermandude 7y ago
The most surprising things I was taught when taking classes in Germany (which went beyond the mandatory classes you have to take to get a driver's license) are the following. Well, not really surprising once you think about it... - Mouth-to-nose is usually better than mouth-to-mouth, at least when there is no obstructions (like bleeding, broken nose, snot, etc). - If you're doing chest compressions, expect a high probability of breaking a few ribs. Don't stop, as it is highly unlikely the ribs will break "inwards" and puncture a lung, and a broken rib is still better than being dead. - Remove all clothing from the chest area you're working during CPR. Yes, that includes bras, specifically. The reason being that any clothes will hurt your hands/rip your gloves (if you have some)/shave the skin off your hand especially when you have to do CPR for 15mins. Bras in particular often have wires etc in them that will hurt your hands even worse. As one of the EMTs training us put it: "Don't be shy, no time for false modesty, it may cost a life." - Don't forget to breath when giving mouth-to-*. Also, don't forget to actually lift your head when you breath. Else you will just breath in the spent air again that you and the person you're helping just exhaled. Given that CPR is very physically taxing, according to the EMTs it is quite common for people giving the CPR to faint themselves if they breath incorrectly. - It is more important to call for help than to do CPR. Always call first, if you're alone. And stay on the phone until you're being told you can get off the line. Apparently a lot of people either do not call, or call, scream some stuff into the phone, then hang up to administer help, often forgetting to tell crucial details like their location because it is such a high stress situation. - Defibrillators do not actually restart hearts that stopped beating. They essentially stop the heart in order to reboot it in hopes it will restart with a proper pace/rhythm.
- c0vfefe 7y ago
  > "Don't be shy, no time for false modesty, it may cost a life." Or it may cost the rescuer quite a bit when a woman regains consciousness half-naked with a man on top of her.
  - johnmaguire2013 7y ago
    Yeah, it's no surprise this isn't taught in the US...

by GuiA 7y ago

em-bee 7y ago

what are you supposed to if the person claims they have no insurance?

PeterisP 7y ago
If the person is able to tell you that they have no insurance, this by itself means they're able to talk reasonably, this means they are conscious and can breathe and so (absent heavy ongoing bleeding e.g. from a gunshot wound) they aren't dying right now - so urgent emergency healthcare isn't really required. If they can move on their own, then they can get to the clinic of their choice themselves if and when they choose to; if they can't (which can be caused by anything from a sprained ankle to a fractured hip) then they still may prefer to be delivered to the hospital by family&friends or a taxi instead of paying thousands for an ambulance delivery.
- em-bee 7y ago
  good point about using that as an assessment of the persons state of being. they still could be bleeding however which needs to be stopped unless it's just surface scratches, or have broken bones that need temporary stabilizing. it seems other than for the first point the question only becomes relevant after any relevant first-aid actions are completed. i have been in a situation where a guy fell out of his wheelchair. he wasn't injured, he just could not get back into his wheelchair and he was to heavy for any of us to help him without us risking to drop him in the process which might have then actually risked an injury. he looked like the kind of person who might not have had insurance. though he didn't make any statement about that and no-one even considered that to be an issue. we saw no choice but to call 911, which sent an ambulance with people who could help (and they knew him too). i wonder now how we would have reacted if he had told us that he has no insurance. we might have been looking for alternative help with an outcome that could have been good or bad. with that in mind i'd think other than for the reasons you mentioned the statement should be ignored.

Diederich 7y ago

Can you expand on your second point, if you have a moment? I knew someone (in California) who crashed his bicycle on a curb in front of a number of people. He picked himself up and had a bloody but minor wound on his arm. But overall he was unharmed, just some surface bleeding. "Of course" multiple people called 911, and an ambulance arrived in short order. He had insurance, but he wasn't interested in getting in an ambulance, he wanted to look after his bike while wrapping up his light wound, and then treating it later. I'm told the exchange was awkward to say the least.

HuShifang 7y ago
Interesting. I'm an American, and once sustained a bloody but minor scrape of my knee when playing basketball in China. I went to the campus clinic/dispensary to obtain some bandages, since I couldn't find any that were the right size at the nearby convenience store; there, the staff practically tried to admit me, telling me that I had sustained a very serious injury and that I needed to take it seriously and start a course of antibiotics. After an awkward conversation concerning my refusal to take antibiotics without (what I deemed to be) sufficient cause (being mindful and wary of the resistance risks of an unnecessary course), and their belief that I was being disrespectful of their medical expertise, I left with a bottle of antibiotic pills that I never took. My knee was as good as new in a week or so. Point being, medical cultures can differ quite a lot, even from locality to locality, and the differences can be seen even in the handling of minor scrapes.
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  In China it's much more common to take antibiotica for minor reasons. Also big (area wise) skin wounds can get infected even if they are not bleeding.
  - Diederich 7y ago
    Correct me if I'm wrong: I think that a wound that is bleeding is a wound that's, at least in part, being protected from infection by 'internal positive pressure'. My grandpa taught me that; to let wounds bleed freely for a while, if possible, to reduce the chance of infection. I wonder how valid that is.

rndgermandude 7y ago

The most surprising things I was taught when taking classes in Germany (which went beyond the mandatory classes you have to take to get a driver's license) are the following. Well, not really surprising once you think about it... - Mouth-to-nose is usually better than mouth-to-mouth, at least when there is no obstructions (like bleeding, broken nose, snot, etc). - If you're doing chest compressions, expect a high probability of breaking a few ribs. Don't stop, as it is highly unlikely the ribs will break "inwards" and puncture a lung, and a broken rib is still better than being dead. - Remove all clothing from the chest area you're working during CPR. Yes, that includes bras, specifically. The reason being that any clothes will hurt your hands/rip your gloves (if you have some)/shave the skin off your hand especially when you have to do CPR for 15mins. Bras in particular often have wires etc in them that will hurt your hands even worse. As one of the EMTs training us put it: "Don't be shy, no time for false modesty, it may cost a life." - Don't forget to breath when giving mouth-to-*. Also, don't forget to actually lift your head when you breath. Else you will just breath in the spent air again that you and the person you're helping just exhaled. Given that CPR is very physically taxing, according to the EMTs it is quite common for people giving the CPR to faint themselves if they breath incorrectly. - It is more important to call for help than to do CPR. Always call first, if you're alone. And stay on the phone until you're being told you can get off the line. Apparently a lot of people either do not call, or call, scream some stuff into the phone, then hang up to administer help, often forgetting to tell crucial details like their location because it is such a high stress situation. - Defibrillators do not actually restart hearts that stopped beating. They essentially stop the heart in order to reboot it in hopes it will restart with a proper pace/rhythm.

c0vfefe 7y ago
> "Don't be shy, no time for false modesty, it may cost a life." Or it may cost the rescuer quite a bit when a woman regains consciousness half-naked with a man on top of her.
- johnmaguire2013 7y ago
  Yeah, it's no surprise this isn't taught in the US...