5 ms·

I'm starting to get the feeling that Safari is going to be left behind and treated like ie6/8 in the near future.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Given that we’re down to just three rendering engines of import, I really hope we don’t lose any more. (Even if you consider Webkit and Blink largely the same, 2.5 engines is much better than 2.)
Epskampie 7y ago
Not on iOS, since there is no alternative there.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  ^ This is true, although in context, all the stuff that didn't work were hover animations, and those don't really matter on iOS.
  - the_other 7y ago
    But it might suit your application to have an animation happen on tap, or on load, that looks like the hover ones. The trigger is probably the least important part of this demonstration site.
dspillett 7y ago
That is already happening. I know a number of people including myself who pretty much ignore Safari for small projects because they don't have iDevices to test on and Safari doesn't run anywhere else. In that instance you just stick to the standards and either hope Safari will cope or don't care if it doesn't. Even on larger and/or professional projects I see it given second class support: people make sure their project works on Safari, so no show stopper or nasty UX bugs, but display glitches and non-major performance issues that are Safari specific get very low priority, if they are addressed at all. Currently the differences seen are far less stark than those seen between IE6/8 and other browsers so this is a relatively minor issue, but it might not remain so. In projects aimed for a wide audience though and for which mobile is a key platform, Safari support is forced much as old-IE support has been forced upon those of us writing software for large institutions who are slow to update, because nothing else runs on iOS. iDevice users can be pretty vocal and not quick to blame their own devices, and even ignoring the noise they can generate they tend to be people with disposable income so if your project/product is commercial you probably can't go too far down the road of ignoring Safari.
- ricardobeat 7y ago
  That’s a terrible excuse since 1) there are plenty of remote/virtualisation tools that let you easily test any browser or platform 2) same logic applies to mobile 3) iPhone has up to 80% share in many locations, Macs up to 25% share in some demographics
  - PetahNZ 7y ago
    Please share these tools for testing old safari, last time I checked I couldn't find any
    - ricardobeat 7y ago
      Browserstack, crossbrowsertesting.com, sauce labs.
  - neurotrace 7y ago
    It may not be fair but it's true. Testing for Safari is such a hassle in my Windows and Android dominated world.
    - TimTheTinker 7y ago
      That's a good argument for always supporting multiple platforms if you're a browser developer. In related news, the new Edge will be released for macOS. I think Apple should follow suit with Safari on Windows again (shouldn't be too much work, since they already have the build and toolchain from a while back).
      - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
        IIRC, Safari on Windows is a decade old or more. I'd bet mainline Safari has changed a lot in that time. Would probably be a significant amount of work. And, uh, Apple's programs for Windows have a history of being really bad. Possibly done intentionally, but even so...
  - 7y ago
osrec 7y ago
Especially Safari on iOS. It infuriates me that we still don't have a push notifications API, nor a roadmap for when it may be included.
caprese 7y ago
I really don't live in that world I use PWA, SPA, CSS, SVG, the works and don't have any issue with Safari and iOS rendering the way I expect it to alongside Chrome and Firefox
chrischen 7y ago
Odd thing to leave out since Safari runs on 100% of iOS devices.

Given that we’re down to just three rendering engines of import, I really hope we don’t lose any more. (Even if you consider Webkit and Blink largely the same, 2.5 engines is much better than 2.)

Epskampie 7y ago

Not on iOS, since there is no alternative there.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
^ This is true, although in context, all the stuff that didn't work were hover animations, and those don't really matter on iOS.
- the_other 7y ago
  But it might suit your application to have an animation happen on tap, or on load, that looks like the hover ones. The trigger is probably the least important part of this demonstration site.

dspillett 7y ago

That is already happening. I know a number of people including myself who pretty much ignore Safari for small projects because they don't have iDevices to test on and Safari doesn't run anywhere else. In that instance you just stick to the standards and either hope Safari will cope or don't care if it doesn't. Even on larger and/or professional projects I see it given second class support: people make sure their project works on Safari, so no show stopper or nasty UX bugs, but display glitches and non-major performance issues that are Safari specific get very low priority, if they are addressed at all. Currently the differences seen are far less stark than those seen between IE6/8 and other browsers so this is a relatively minor issue, but it might not remain so. In projects aimed for a wide audience though and for which mobile is a key platform, Safari support is forced much as old-IE support has been forced upon those of us writing software for large institutions who are slow to update, because nothing else runs on iOS. iDevice users can be pretty vocal and not quick to blame their own devices, and even ignoring the noise they can generate they tend to be people with disposable income so if your project/product is commercial you probably can't go too far down the road of ignoring Safari.

ricardobeat 7y ago
That’s a terrible excuse since 1) there are plenty of remote/virtualisation tools that let you easily test any browser or platform 2) same logic applies to mobile 3) iPhone has up to 80% share in many locations, Macs up to 25% share in some demographics
- PetahNZ 7y ago
  Please share these tools for testing old safari, last time I checked I couldn't find any
  - ricardobeat 7y ago
    Browserstack, crossbrowsertesting.com, sauce labs.
- neurotrace 7y ago
  It may not be fair but it's true. Testing for Safari is such a hassle in my Windows and Android dominated world.
  - TimTheTinker 7y ago
    That's a good argument for always supporting multiple platforms if you're a browser developer. In related news, the new Edge will be released for macOS. I think Apple should follow suit with Safari on Windows again (shouldn't be too much work, since they already have the build and toolchain from a while back).
    - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
      IIRC, Safari on Windows is a decade old or more. I'd bet mainline Safari has changed a lot in that time. Would probably be a significant amount of work. And, uh, Apple's programs for Windows have a history of being really bad. Possibly done intentionally, but even so...
- 7y ago

osrec 7y ago

Especially Safari on iOS. It infuriates me that we still don't have a push notifications API, nor a roadmap for when it may be included.

caprese 7y ago

I really don't live in that world I use PWA, SPA, CSS, SVG, the works and don't have any issue with Safari and iOS rendering the way I expect it to alongside Chrome and Firefox

chrischen 7y ago

Odd thing to leave out since Safari runs on 100% of iOS devices.