8 ms·

There are very real problems with how China treats foreign companies (intellectual theft, requirements to partner with Chinese companies and many more). I'm hap

There are very real problems with how China treats foreign companies (intellectual theft, requirements to partner with Chinese companies and many more). I'm happy they get addressed. However, Trump completely misrepresents the problem and the impact of tariffs. The negotiations clearly are tackling the right issues, yet here he is talking about trade deficits as some kind of theft and tariffs as a straight up win like some moron who doesn't get econ 101. He is doing his (for once) good effort such a disservice. Is he trying to divide the country by even representing his good work in a way that will only appeal to his hardcore supporters or does he truly not get it? Is there a more charitable explanation? Edit: I also have very sour memories of Obama complaining about the trade deficit with Germany. In that case none of the real issues like we have doing business with China existed. In essence Obama was complaining about German companies being too successful and Germans saving too much money. Maybe I'm particular sensitive to trade deficit rhetoric because of that. If the passing field is level, then maybe the deficit is the fault of the country that has the deficit. In this case the playing field is very skewed and that's the problem.

dilyevsky 8y ago
“Trade deficit” is what his voter base “understands” and it sounds scary so it would make sense to peddle this to them even though it has nothing to do with real issues. But then again it’s trump so who the fuck knows why he does it...
- mistermann 8y ago
  > “Trade deficit” is what his voter base “understands” and it sounds scary so it would make sense to peddle this to them even though it has nothing to do with real issues. I assume you implicitly are saying that they also don't understand the harm a trade war also does to the American economy? Regardless....out of curiosity, how did you come to know the details of what Trump's base thinks at such a detailed level? edit: Also out of curiosity, why would someone downvote this? Does it not seem like a perfectly fair question (if you set your politics aside and think about it logically, something that used to be the overwhelming norm on HN)?
mikeash 8y ago
He doesn’t get it. It’s obvious at this point that he’s just not very intelligent and makes it worse by putting in zero effort to understand.
padobson 8y ago
Does his understanding matter? If Mnuchin and Lighthizer are hitting all the right notes in the negotiation, does it matter if Trump understands any of it? Let him bluster and take credit for Mnuchin and Lighthizer's good work.
- ajmurmann 8y ago
  The problem is that his communication is what's most visible and it's misrepresenting his administration's good work. It would be good for the country to at least be unified on some issues. Yet this gets presented in a way where we again can't even agree on the problem.
ww520 8y ago
His style of talking is to use simple terms even to the extent of sounding stupid to let the messages go across clearly. Trade deficits being neutral or slight bad is a niche view by a some economists. Most people view trade deficits as bad, rightly or wrongly. The word deficit, loss, and inbalance all have bad connotation. And the loss is huge, adding to a dramatic effect. He's trying to justify his action to his voters. Why won't he use trade deficit reduction as a goal? Also balanced trade would be better than trade deficit, so it's a worth goal to achieve.
- ajmurmann 8y ago
  If the market was fair, then it's the US's fault to not make more attractive products and buy tons of stuff from China. It wouldn't be China's fault that they are successful and we are not. It would be like Obama bitching about Germany that I mentioned above. But that's not what's going on here. China is playing unfairly.
  - ww520 8y ago
    The market in regarding to China is not fair, so all is moot. Germany isn't play so fair as well [1]. [1] https://www.export.gov/article?id=Germany-Trade-Barriers https://www.export.gov/article?id=Germany-Trade-Barriers
    - ajmurmann 8y ago
      If the trade with China is discriminatory, he should call that out and not whine about a trade deficit, which can have many reasons (like US products might be bad or US consumers consume too much) The link you provide only mentions high testing standards and even specifically calls out that they don't get applied in a discriminatory way. Can you elaborate more?

dilyevsky 8y ago

“Trade deficit” is what his voter base “understands” and it sounds scary so it would make sense to peddle this to them even though it has nothing to do with real issues. But then again it’s trump so who the fuck knows why he does it...

mistermann 8y ago
> “Trade deficit” is what his voter base “understands” and it sounds scary so it would make sense to peddle this to them even though it has nothing to do with real issues. I assume you implicitly are saying that they also don't understand the harm a trade war also does to the American economy? Regardless....out of curiosity, how did you come to know the details of what Trump's base thinks at such a detailed level? edit: Also out of curiosity, why would someone downvote this? Does it not seem like a perfectly fair question (if you set your politics aside and think about it logically, something that used to be the overwhelming norm on HN)?

mikeash 8y ago

He doesn’t get it. It’s obvious at this point that he’s just not very intelligent and makes it worse by putting in zero effort to understand.

padobson 8y ago

Does his understanding matter? If Mnuchin and Lighthizer are hitting all the right notes in the negotiation, does it matter if Trump understands any of it? Let him bluster and take credit for Mnuchin and Lighthizer's good work.

ajmurmann 8y ago
The problem is that his communication is what's most visible and it's misrepresenting his administration's good work. It would be good for the country to at least be unified on some issues. Yet this gets presented in a way where we again can't even agree on the problem.

ww520 8y ago

His style of talking is to use simple terms even to the extent of sounding stupid to let the messages go across clearly. Trade deficits being neutral or slight bad is a niche view by a some economists. Most people view trade deficits as bad, rightly or wrongly. The word deficit, loss, and inbalance all have bad connotation. And the loss is huge, adding to a dramatic effect. He's trying to justify his action to his voters. Why won't he use trade deficit reduction as a goal? Also balanced trade would be better than trade deficit, so it's a worth goal to achieve.

ajmurmann 8y ago
If the market was fair, then it's the US's fault to not make more attractive products and buy tons of stuff from China. It wouldn't be China's fault that they are successful and we are not. It would be like Obama bitching about Germany that I mentioned above. But that's not what's going on here. China is playing unfairly.
- ww520 8y ago
  The market in regarding to China is not fair, so all is moot. Germany isn't play so fair as well [1]. [1] https://www.export.gov/article?id=Germany-Trade-Barriers https://www.export.gov/article?id=Germany-Trade-Barriers
  - ajmurmann 8y ago
    If the trade with China is discriminatory, he should call that out and not whine about a trade deficit, which can have many reasons (like US products might be bad or US consumers consume too much) The link you provide only mentions high testing standards and even specifically calls out that they don't get applied in a discriminatory way. Can you elaborate more?