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Cue a dozen bitcoin apologists explaining how "bitcoin the protocol is actually extremely secure, it just so happens that every third person involved with imple

Cue a dozen bitcoin apologists explaining how "bitcoin the protocol is actually extremely secure, it just so happens that every third person involved with implementing bitcoin-the-actual-token is either a crook or incompetent or an incompetent crook."

joelvalleroy 8y ago
How can it be anything else? This even concerns individual account security "The hackers "had the patience to wait" and acquire access to a number of accounts before withdrawing the huge haul of bitcoins, according to Binance.".
repomies68 8y ago
In this case customers in the end won't lose money, as binance can cover the loss from their own assets. And similar has been happened with most hacks in the past - as only hot wallet is emptied, the cost is manageable. Though IMO 7000btc is too much for hot wallet in any case...
rich-tea 8y ago
Name a technology that isn't susceptible to crooks or incompetence. Bitcoin isn't worse than anything else in that respect.
- root_axis 8y ago
  It's pretty obviously worse in practice as massive heists like this are vanishingly rare except in blockchain token land.
  - rich-tea 8y ago
    Really? https://news.google.com/search?q=Theft+stolen+-bitcoin https://news.google.com/search?q=Theft+stolen+-bitcoin
    - root_axis 8y ago
      You can equivocate all you'd like, but the reality is that having your cash stolen from the bank is a non-issue while having your bitcoin lost or stolen is pretty much an inevitability without careful OpSec. Your disingenuous link to a google search for "theft+stolen - bitcoin" reflects poorly on your argumentation skills.
      - rich-tea 8y ago
        How is it disingenuous? You said that heists were "vanishingly rare" outside of Bitcoin. As it happens, your cash in the bank is being slowly devalued via inflation as the banks are constantly making new money in the form of loans. Bitcoin being the way it is is a feature, not a bug. If you don't get it, that's fine, but don't make ridiculous claims like only bitcoin is susceptible to crime and incompetence.
        root_axis 8y ago
        > How is it disingenuous? You said that heists were "vanishingly rare" outside of Bitcoin. It's disingenuous because what I actually said was: "MASSIVE HEIGHTS LIKE THIS are vanishingly rare except in blockchain token land." Emphasis added to highlight your deliberate misreading of what I wrote.
        rich-tea 8y ago
        Oh, so your point is that bitcoin-specific problems aren't a problem outside of Bitcoin. Gotcha.
SolarNet 8y ago
It's an important distinction, even in this thread someone has already confused the difference. I have warned people off of bitcoin for years with the specific explanation of the difference, and how no real system is secure (regardless of the underlying cryptosystem being correct). Yet it's somehow acceptable for companies to collect massive amounts of personal information for profit and get hacked. So my realization is that it doesn't matter, a system is useful because of it's value, and hacks are a part of that expected value. You know who sounds like an incompetent, the company that leaked 230 million people's personal information. You know who sounds like a crook, the companies that said they would stop selling geo location data, but continue to anyway. Some companies store money directly in servers, and some are barely punished for leaking personal information (meaning the economic incentive to stop that behavior is not there; the loss of value is externalized). To an extent one of those sounds more honest to me, and it's not the traditional one. This is not a problem with bitcoin, this is a problem with capitalism, bitcoin just makes it obvious.
yreg 8y ago
I wouldn't outright call everyone who makes a security mistake incompetent. However, most third persons involved with implementing bitcoin-the-actual-token don't get hacked.
DickingAround 8y ago
Checking in! Yes, security is hard. But seriously just about everyone is doing generally fine with this. It's especially hard to run an exchange. But bitcoin isn't an exchange. Lots of people own their own security and run their bitcoin without exchanges and that all works fine. Lots of exchanges even run these days without issues (Coinbase has like a decade under them now). Seriously, it's not even a lot of money.
lawn 8y ago
Cue a dozen bitcoin haters explaining how "the difference between exchanges and the protocol doesn't matter and how bitcoin shouldn't be valuable anymore because exchanges gets hacked."

joelvalleroy 8y ago

How can it be anything else? This even concerns individual account security "The hackers "had the patience to wait" and acquire access to a number of accounts before withdrawing the huge haul of bitcoins, according to Binance.".

repomies68 8y ago

In this case customers in the end won't lose money, as binance can cover the loss from their own assets. And similar has been happened with most hacks in the past - as only hot wallet is emptied, the cost is manageable. Though IMO 7000btc is too much for hot wallet in any case...

rich-tea 8y ago

Name a technology that isn't susceptible to crooks or incompetence. Bitcoin isn't worse than anything else in that respect.

root_axis 8y ago
It's pretty obviously worse in practice as massive heists like this are vanishingly rare except in blockchain token land.
- rich-tea 8y ago
  Really? https://news.google.com/search?q=Theft+stolen+-bitcoin https://news.google.com/search?q=Theft+stolen+-bitcoin
  - root_axis 8y ago
    You can equivocate all you'd like, but the reality is that having your cash stolen from the bank is a non-issue while having your bitcoin lost or stolen is pretty much an inevitability without careful OpSec. Your disingenuous link to a google search for "theft+stolen - bitcoin" reflects poorly on your argumentation skills.
    - rich-tea 8y ago
      How is it disingenuous? You said that heists were "vanishingly rare" outside of Bitcoin. As it happens, your cash in the bank is being slowly devalued via inflation as the banks are constantly making new money in the form of loans. Bitcoin being the way it is is a feature, not a bug. If you don't get it, that's fine, but don't make ridiculous claims like only bitcoin is susceptible to crime and incompetence.
      - root_axis 8y ago
        > How is it disingenuous? You said that heists were "vanishingly rare" outside of Bitcoin. It's disingenuous because what I actually said was: "MASSIVE HEIGHTS LIKE THIS are vanishingly rare except in blockchain token land." Emphasis added to highlight your deliberate misreading of what I wrote.
        rich-tea 8y ago
        Oh, so your point is that bitcoin-specific problems aren't a problem outside of Bitcoin. Gotcha.

SolarNet 8y ago

It's an important distinction, even in this thread someone has already confused the difference. I have warned people off of bitcoin for years with the specific explanation of the difference, and how no real system is secure (regardless of the underlying cryptosystem being correct). Yet it's somehow acceptable for companies to collect massive amounts of personal information for profit and get hacked. So my realization is that it doesn't matter, a system is useful because of it's value, and hacks are a part of that expected value. You know who sounds like an incompetent, the company that leaked 230 million people's personal information. You know who sounds like a crook, the companies that said they would stop selling geo location data, but continue to anyway. Some companies store money directly in servers, and some are barely punished for leaking personal information (meaning the economic incentive to stop that behavior is not there; the loss of value is externalized). To an extent one of those sounds more honest to me, and it's not the traditional one. This is not a problem with bitcoin, this is a problem with capitalism, bitcoin just makes it obvious.

yreg 8y ago

I wouldn't outright call everyone who makes a security mistake incompetent. However, most third persons involved with implementing bitcoin-the-actual-token don't get hacked.

DickingAround 8y ago

Checking in! Yes, security is hard. But seriously just about everyone is doing generally fine with this. It's especially hard to run an exchange. But bitcoin isn't an exchange. Lots of people own their own security and run their bitcoin without exchanges and that all works fine. Lots of exchanges even run these days without issues (Coinbase has like a decade under them now). Seriously, it's not even a lot of money.

lawn 8y ago

Cue a dozen bitcoin haters explaining how "the difference between exchanges and the protocol doesn't matter and how bitcoin shouldn't be valuable anymore because exchanges gets hacked."