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Paper ballots are vulnerable to systemic voter suppression of the kind that’s hard to eliminate. Voter ID laws. Complicated ballots. Overloaded polling stations

Paper ballots are vulnerable to systemic voter suppression of the kind that’s hard to eliminate. Voter ID laws. Complicated ballots. Overloaded polling stations. Worst, all these weaknesses are difficult to eliminate because they are both difficult to sincerely debate and difficult to generate the public interest necessary to generate enough activism. Electronic voting can reduce the friction enough to where we can address these issues with common-sense approaches.

atoav 7y ago
These are mostly solved problems in all western nations (except for the US). E.g. I am Austrian living in Germany and I vote by mail since a decade. Mail voting has the downside that it invites the kind of problems where some guy tricks elderly people into giving them their vote etc. But all in all it works quite well.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  AKA Granny Farming - which is a downside to postal voting which should be limited to those that need it medical reasons troops aboard etc
- jonwachob91 7y ago
  >>> These are mostly solved problems in all western nations (except for the US). E.g. I am Austrian living in Germany and I vote by mail since a decade. The US has had vote-by-mail for as long as I can remember [0]... So what is an example of a "mostly solved problems in all western nations (except for the US)" other than an example that you posted that is inaccurate? I'm not arguing that we have solved all election problems, but it's unfair to say we haven't solved something and share a solution that your country has that our country has too. Maybe Austria does something different with their vote-by-mail system than what the US does, if so please share what that is. [0]https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-by-mail/ https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-b...
  - elliekelly 7y ago
    The US doesn't have vote-by-mail, we have mail-in absentee ballots and they're intended to be a last resort. You can only request an absentee ballot if you're unable to vote in person. You can't request an absentee ballot simply because it's more convenient.
    - sverige 7y ago
      That is an incorrect statement in many states. [0] I voted by mail in Colorado in elections that were held at least 20 years ago. [1] [0] http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mail-elections.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mai... [1] https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/FAQs/mailBallotsFAQ.html https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/FAQs/mailBallotsF...
    - jonwachob91 7y ago
      I'm not sure what state you are in, but that entire statement is not true in the state of FL. Per the link I cited above as a sample reference to vote-by-mail in the US - "Vote-by-mail refers to voting a ballot received by mail or picked up by or for a voter instead of going to the polls to vote during early voting period or Election Day. Except on Election Day, no excuse is needed to vote a vote-by-mail ballot (see Who Can Pick Up a Vote-by-Mail Ballot below)." The key phrase being that last one, "no excuse is needed to vote a vote-by-mail ballot". There is no verbiage about it being a "last resort" and that you can only vote-by-mail if "you're unable to vote in person". The Florida Division of Elections even titles the page "Vote-by-mail". https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-by-mail/ https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-b...
wongarsu 7y ago
How does electronic voting solve any of those? - With electronic voting the identification problem is at least as hard as with paper ballots, so Voter ID is at least as hard (an honestly, I've never heard of any problem of this kind outside of the US) - Electronic ballots could be simpler than paper ballots, but they can also be a lot more complicated. Under the assumption that voter suppression is taking place we have to assume that the electronic ballot would be more complicated than the paper equivalent - Electronic voting still requires voting booths, meaning you can still overload polling stations. Voting from home is equivalent to mail voting (already a thing) and has a lot of problems if it's how the majority votes Also all these problems have common sense solutions already: - If the nation for some reason doesn't have a ubiquitous national identity system the government should take some of that tax money and hand out free Voter ID cards (perferably delivered by certified mail or similar) - Designing ballots that are not complicated is a solved problem in most of the Western World - Have enough polling stations that queue times never exceed 10 minutes. If queues are too long take note to make that polling station bigger in the next election.
- michaelt 7y ago
  Depends if "electronic voting" means "in-person voting at polling stations with existing polling cards and polling booths, but replace paper ballots with touchscreen vote-counting machines" or if it means "Voting by smart phone" Although there are downsides to vote-by-smartphone, an advocate would argue you should compare it to vote-by-mail rather than vote-in-person, given that almost every election allows vote-by-mail.
  - Tharkun 7y ago
    Smartphone voting sounds like a recipe for disaster. The fact that votes are cast in private in an otherwise public place is part of what makes the system work. If you let a large number of people vote remotely, you have zero certainty that a) the voters weren't pressured into voting a certain way, say by a domineering parent or b) that the device wasn't compromised.
    - 7y ago

atoav 7y ago

These are mostly solved problems in all western nations (except for the US). E.g. I am Austrian living in Germany and I vote by mail since a decade. Mail voting has the downside that it invites the kind of problems where some guy tricks elderly people into giving them their vote etc. But all in all it works quite well.

C1sc0cat 7y ago
AKA Granny Farming - which is a downside to postal voting which should be limited to those that need it medical reasons troops aboard etc
jonwachob91 7y ago
>>> These are mostly solved problems in all western nations (except for the US). E.g. I am Austrian living in Germany and I vote by mail since a decade. The US has had vote-by-mail for as long as I can remember [0]... So what is an example of a "mostly solved problems in all western nations (except for the US)" other than an example that you posted that is inaccurate? I'm not arguing that we have solved all election problems, but it's unfair to say we haven't solved something and share a solution that your country has that our country has too. Maybe Austria does something different with their vote-by-mail system than what the US does, if so please share what that is. [0]https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-by-mail/ https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-b...
- elliekelly 7y ago
  The US doesn't have vote-by-mail, we have mail-in absentee ballots and they're intended to be a last resort. You can only request an absentee ballot if you're unable to vote in person. You can't request an absentee ballot simply because it's more convenient.
  - sverige 7y ago
    That is an incorrect statement in many states. [0] I voted by mail in Colorado in elections that were held at least 20 years ago. [1] [0] http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mail-elections.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mai... [1] https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/FAQs/mailBallotsFAQ.html https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/elections/FAQs/mailBallotsF...
  - jonwachob91 7y ago
    I'm not sure what state you are in, but that entire statement is not true in the state of FL. Per the link I cited above as a sample reference to vote-by-mail in the US - "Vote-by-mail refers to voting a ballot received by mail or picked up by or for a voter instead of going to the polls to vote during early voting period or Election Day. Except on Election Day, no excuse is needed to vote a vote-by-mail ballot (see Who Can Pick Up a Vote-by-Mail Ballot below)." The key phrase being that last one, "no excuse is needed to vote a vote-by-mail ballot". There is no verbiage about it being a "last resort" and that you can only vote-by-mail if "you're unable to vote in person". The Florida Division of Elections even titles the page "Vote-by-mail". https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-by-mail/ https://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voting/vote-b...

wongarsu 7y ago

How does electronic voting solve any of those? - With electronic voting the identification problem is at least as hard as with paper ballots, so Voter ID is at least as hard (an honestly, I've never heard of any problem of this kind outside of the US) - Electronic ballots could be simpler than paper ballots, but they can also be a lot more complicated. Under the assumption that voter suppression is taking place we have to assume that the electronic ballot would be more complicated than the paper equivalent - Electronic voting still requires voting booths, meaning you can still overload polling stations. Voting from home is equivalent to mail voting (already a thing) and has a lot of problems if it's how the majority votes Also all these problems have common sense solutions already: - If the nation for some reason doesn't have a ubiquitous national identity system the government should take some of that tax money and hand out free Voter ID cards (perferably delivered by certified mail or similar) - Designing ballots that are not complicated is a solved problem in most of the Western World - Have enough polling stations that queue times never exceed 10 minutes. If queues are too long take note to make that polling station bigger in the next election.

michaelt 7y ago
Depends if "electronic voting" means "in-person voting at polling stations with existing polling cards and polling booths, but replace paper ballots with touchscreen vote-counting machines" or if it means "Voting by smart phone" Although there are downsides to vote-by-smartphone, an advocate would argue you should compare it to vote-by-mail rather than vote-in-person, given that almost every election allows vote-by-mail.
- Tharkun 7y ago
  Smartphone voting sounds like a recipe for disaster. The fact that votes are cast in private in an otherwise public place is part of what makes the system work. If you let a large number of people vote remotely, you have zero certainty that a) the voters weren't pressured into voting a certain way, say by a domineering parent or b) that the device wasn't compromised.
  - 7y ago