4 ms·

In Europe you can. I've always saved receipts and boxes of lamps (both for inventory and waranty purposes). It's been trivial to return lamps and get free repla

by wjnc 7y ago

In Europe you can. I've always saved receipts and boxes of lamps (both for inventory and waranty purposes). It's been trivial to return lamps and get free replacements even after the 2 yr default warranty by claiming it broke to soon and giving a quick calculation how with say 4 or 8 hours a day I couldn't have hit the hourly mark at that point in time. Must have gotten at least a dozen free lamps. It is uneconomic neurotic consumerism on my part though. But I sure do hate how old fashioned bulbs were made illegal based on surely false economic lifetime projections of LEDs. On top of that half of the year I'm central heating and I couldn't care less what the source of my heat is.

iforgotpassword 7y ago
Huh? Here in Germany you get 6 months for any type of bulb. Everything else is voluntary.
- kalleboo 7y ago
  https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers... > EU law also stipulates that you must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. In some countries national law may require you to provide longer guarantees. If the package says something like "10,000 hours" and you haven't run it for that many hours and it dies in 2 years you can get it replaced by EU law
  - wjnc 7y ago
    In the Netherlands (my country) this is interpreted as that you have a right to a functional product for the usual lifespan of a product. After the two years guarantee you're supposed to share the repair costs proportionally. The boxes of bulbs state the expected lifespan (most home appliances do not) so that's an easy starting point. Plus I guess my local DIY-shop just doesn't want to haggle with me and just gives me the replacement each and every time since I'm the only one asking. I'm unsure about how my online LED-supplier will react if in 3-5 years my LEDs burn out, but I've tried to choose a respectable brand and supplier.
WAHa_06x36 7y ago
Central heating especially can be much more efficient than simple resistive heating. Here, central heating runs on waste heat. You can also use heat pumps more efficiently than resistive heating. Incandescent bulbs are inefficient even for heating (to say nothing of the OTHER half of the year when you'd still be wasting massive amounts of energy.)
- inciampati 7y ago
  Isn't the waste energy from the inefficiency of the incandescent bulbs fully deposited in your house? What is the other source of inefficiency that makes them inefficient for this by-use? The overall replacement cost? Just curious.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    > Isn't the waste energy from the inefficiency of the incandescent bulbs fully deposited in your house? Yes, and that mean an incandescent bulb is 100% efficient: all power used is converted to light+heat. But other systems can be more than 100% efficient - they can add more heat than the power they use. Or, in the case of central heating from waste, unused heat will probably have to be pumped off anyway, so using it is energetically free.
  - nordsieck 7y ago
    > Isn't the waste energy from the inefficiency of the incandescent bulbs fully deposited in your house? Yes. > What is the other source of inefficiency that makes them inefficient for this by-use? Heat pumps are more efficient at heating than resistive elements because they take advantage of already existing environmental heat, whereas resistive heating has to generate all of the heat directly.
    - wjnc 7y ago
      Thanks for this insight. Never thought about this. I'm still on old-fashioned gas so in my case the only difference is one of gas being cheaper per joule even after the (in-)efficiency of burning than electricity. But indeed in the heat pump world you get more joules in heating than you put in in Wh of electricity. Still you should amortize the cost of pump per joule of heating. Bulbs were _cheap_.

by wjnc 7y ago

iforgotpassword 7y ago

Huh? Here in Germany you get 6 months for any type of bulb. Everything else is voluntary.

kalleboo 7y ago
https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers... > EU law also stipulates that you must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. In some countries national law may require you to provide longer guarantees. If the package says something like "10,000 hours" and you haven't run it for that many hours and it dies in 2 years you can get it replaced by EU law
- wjnc 7y ago
  In the Netherlands (my country) this is interpreted as that you have a right to a functional product for the usual lifespan of a product. After the two years guarantee you're supposed to share the repair costs proportionally. The boxes of bulbs state the expected lifespan (most home appliances do not) so that's an easy starting point. Plus I guess my local DIY-shop just doesn't want to haggle with me and just gives me the replacement each and every time since I'm the only one asking. I'm unsure about how my online LED-supplier will react if in 3-5 years my LEDs burn out, but I've tried to choose a respectable brand and supplier.

WAHa_06x36 7y ago

Central heating especially can be much more efficient than simple resistive heating. Here, central heating runs on waste heat. You can also use heat pumps more efficiently than resistive heating. Incandescent bulbs are inefficient even for heating (to say nothing of the OTHER half of the year when you'd still be wasting massive amounts of energy.)

inciampati 7y ago
Isn't the waste energy from the inefficiency of the incandescent bulbs fully deposited in your house? What is the other source of inefficiency that makes them inefficient for this by-use? The overall replacement cost? Just curious.
- icebraining 7y ago
  > Isn't the waste energy from the inefficiency of the incandescent bulbs fully deposited in your house? Yes, and that mean an incandescent bulb is 100% efficient: all power used is converted to light+heat. But other systems can be more than 100% efficient - they can add more heat than the power they use. Or, in the case of central heating from waste, unused heat will probably have to be pumped off anyway, so using it is energetically free.
- nordsieck 7y ago
  > Isn't the waste energy from the inefficiency of the incandescent bulbs fully deposited in your house? Yes. > What is the other source of inefficiency that makes them inefficient for this by-use? Heat pumps are more efficient at heating than resistive elements because they take advantage of already existing environmental heat, whereas resistive heating has to generate all of the heat directly.
  - wjnc 7y ago
    Thanks for this insight. Never thought about this. I'm still on old-fashioned gas so in my case the only difference is one of gas being cheaper per joule even after the (in-)efficiency of burning than electricity. But indeed in the heat pump world you get more joules in heating than you put in in Wh of electricity. Still you should amortize the cost of pump per joule of heating. Bulbs were _cheap_.