5 ms·

We will not run out of Lithium (or any of the other rare metals powering the "green" revolution, the electric batteries, the electro-magnets, catalysts, cameras

by mrpopo 7y ago

We will not run out of Lithium (or any of the other rare metals powering the "green" revolution, the electric batteries, the electro-magnets, catalysts, cameras, IOT), we might simply destroy more of the environment mining it. When do we stop? For those who speak French, I recommend talks and books by Philippe Bihouix, in which he explains the environmental and societal challenges associated with our new thirst for rare earths and metals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx9S8gvNKkA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx9S8gvNKkA

SECProto 7y ago
> When do we stop? Sometime after we stop mining fossil fuels, I hope.
ElKrist 7y ago
What do you mean by we will not run out of any rare metals powering the "green" revolution? Bihouix agrees that we may not run out of it in a geological sense. However he also argues that the extraction will become harder (lower concentrations to deal with) and is one of the fallacies of the "green" revolution
- thiago_fm 7y ago
  Just go watch a video about pre-salt oil in Brazil and how hard it is to extract it, almost an engineering miracle... and people still do it, as a good field might take some initial investment, but in the end might cost like $15 a barrel to extract with current technology, making it economically/environmentally viable. Even better than fracking. But as with any extracting work, there are downsides. People having been mining/drilling etc for centuries, I doubt people in hacker news can discuss all there is into those topics and the environmental impact. I think now we should look for better alternatives to the current way wreck with the environment, eletric cars are better than the ones moved by oil -- by a wide margin, even taking in account that you need to mine lithium. Just check the environmental implications of fracking, yet -- people still do it. There is always a way. What governments and police makers should care is to understand the environment implications and create a good legal framework and there is law enforcement, so companies do it correctly. We can either let this fear aside and believe humanity will need this step to perhaps takes other and find more efficient ways of creating energy. Or we can die in fear by keeping this dependency in oil, which btw, we will run out soon. Earth itself is a timebomb with 7bi people, with the current way we do things. We should be definitely pushing for changes and figure out what we could do in order to get rid of this problem. Also invest more into fusion energy. Develop new shit, basically. We have had much progress in history because people were bold and tried new things. If nowadays humanity is ruined by fear of doing things and press, earth is going to become nothing and humanity will collapse. Don't get triggered by this fear.
- jayalpha 7y ago
  Yes. The same is true for oil. We will in fact never run out of oil. The most part of what is left will stay where it is. In the ground.
- francisofascii 7y ago
  Can't lithium be recycled?
jayalpha 7y ago
https://www.amazon.com/Extracted-Mineral-Wealth-Plundering-Planet/dp/1603585419 https://www.amazon.com/Extracted-Mineral-Wealth-Plundering-P...
alex_young 7y ago
Do you know how lithium is mined? It's not a rare metal you open a pit mine for. Lithium is extracted from water which is pumped to the surface and allowed to evaporate. What's left is a salt that has a high concentration of lithium and is further refined. I'm not saying it's a process without environmental impact, but it seems like there should be some sound way of domestically extracting this resource that reduces our carbon output.
- ckuhl 7y ago
  From a nonexpert viewpoint, that sounds somewhat similar to how fracking works. Do you think there’s a similar risk of the ground settling as material is removed?
  - wutbrodo 7y ago
    Isn't fracking the opposite, blasting water into the earth at high pressure to create fissures?
- rbanffy 7y ago
  > I'm not saying it's a process without environmental impact On the bright side, it's pumping salty water out of the ground and making clouds out of it.
goda90 7y ago
Even demand for metals like copper are threatening the environment. For instance people are trying right now to save large amounts of wilderness in northern Minnesota from very dirty copper mining: https://www.savetheboundarywaters.org/the-threat https://www.savetheboundarywaters.org/the-threat
coolspot 7y ago
Yep, Cobalt mining for Li-Ion batteries already endangers gorillas in Congo - http://www.mining.com/illegal-mining-in-congo-wiping-out-gorilla-populations/ http://www.mining.com/illegal-mining-in-congo-wiping-out-gor...

by mrpopo 7y ago

SECProto 7y ago

> When do we stop? Sometime after we stop mining fossil fuels, I hope.

ElKrist 7y ago

What do you mean by we will not run out of any rare metals powering the "green" revolution? Bihouix agrees that we may not run out of it in a geological sense. However he also argues that the extraction will become harder (lower concentrations to deal with) and is one of the fallacies of the "green" revolution

thiago_fm 7y ago
Just go watch a video about pre-salt oil in Brazil and how hard it is to extract it, almost an engineering miracle... and people still do it, as a good field might take some initial investment, but in the end might cost like $15 a barrel to extract with current technology, making it economically/environmentally viable. Even better than fracking. But as with any extracting work, there are downsides. People having been mining/drilling etc for centuries, I doubt people in hacker news can discuss all there is into those topics and the environmental impact. I think now we should look for better alternatives to the current way wreck with the environment, eletric cars are better than the ones moved by oil -- by a wide margin, even taking in account that you need to mine lithium. Just check the environmental implications of fracking, yet -- people still do it. There is always a way. What governments and police makers should care is to understand the environment implications and create a good legal framework and there is law enforcement, so companies do it correctly. We can either let this fear aside and believe humanity will need this step to perhaps takes other and find more efficient ways of creating energy. Or we can die in fear by keeping this dependency in oil, which btw, we will run out soon. Earth itself is a timebomb with 7bi people, with the current way we do things. We should be definitely pushing for changes and figure out what we could do in order to get rid of this problem. Also invest more into fusion energy. Develop new shit, basically. We have had much progress in history because people were bold and tried new things. If nowadays humanity is ruined by fear of doing things and press, earth is going to become nothing and humanity will collapse. Don't get triggered by this fear.
jayalpha 7y ago
Yes. The same is true for oil. We will in fact never run out of oil. The most part of what is left will stay where it is. In the ground.
francisofascii 7y ago
Can't lithium be recycled?

jayalpha 7y ago

https://www.amazon.com/Extracted-Mineral-Wealth-Plundering-Planet/dp/1603585419 https://www.amazon.com/Extracted-Mineral-Wealth-Plundering-P...

alex_young 7y ago

Do you know how lithium is mined? It's not a rare metal you open a pit mine for. Lithium is extracted from water which is pumped to the surface and allowed to evaporate. What's left is a salt that has a high concentration of lithium and is further refined. I'm not saying it's a process without environmental impact, but it seems like there should be some sound way of domestically extracting this resource that reduces our carbon output.

ckuhl 7y ago
From a nonexpert viewpoint, that sounds somewhat similar to how fracking works. Do you think there’s a similar risk of the ground settling as material is removed?
- wutbrodo 7y ago
  Isn't fracking the opposite, blasting water into the earth at high pressure to create fissures?
rbanffy 7y ago
> I'm not saying it's a process without environmental impact On the bright side, it's pumping salty water out of the ground and making clouds out of it.

goda90 7y ago

Even demand for metals like copper are threatening the environment. For instance people are trying right now to save large amounts of wilderness in northern Minnesota from very dirty copper mining: https://www.savetheboundarywaters.org/the-threat https://www.savetheboundarywaters.org/the-threat

coolspot 7y ago

Yep, Cobalt mining for Li-Ion batteries already endangers gorillas in Congo - http://www.mining.com/illegal-mining-in-congo-wiping-out-gorilla-populations/ http://www.mining.com/illegal-mining-in-congo-wiping-out-gor...